Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:46 pm
smudgeoffudge wrote:You could have an electric fence around your house, a big sign stating the fence is an electric fence, another sign saying 'NO TRESPASSING DO NO ENTER' and another sign saying "PRIVATE POOL NO SWIMMING" and if some child manages to get inside and drowns in your pool you'd probably loose the lawsuit and have to pay for funeral expences or whatever they want you to pay for.
Actually, this one would be almost impossible for the plaintiff to win - the kid would have to voluntarily ignore the danger signs and willingly do something that he knew was a) dangerous and b) illegal. He took the risk on himself, whereas the owners of the pool did everything they could to make sure that the pool was not accessible to those who didn't belong.
The K-Mart thing - that jury award was overturned on appeal IIRC, for the same reason. Same thing with the guy who fell through a skylight onto a cutlery rack while attempting to rob a house.
EDIT: On-topic, I don't know of any lawsuits involving neopets, other than the one from the company which manufactures Chia Pets.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:00 pm
What kind of dumb- kid what tell some crustly old man where he lived?? By 11 years old I should HOPE you'd know not to tell strangers ANY information about yourself. I know smarter 3 year olds. That kid and his mother should be locked up for stupidity.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:06 pm
loudgrrl4_ever wrote:Yes there are things that need to be fixed on neopets, but neopets should not be responsible for parenting our youth. They have some of the best filters I've seen on any website and they do spend a nice chunk on monitors, but you can't possibly do everything, even with enough money.
I agree totally--we decided to let our daughter play Neopets because it was so safe and was monitored--and I have to say, for the most part, Neopets is a very safe site.
loudgrrl4_ever wrote: Neopets should not be at fault for lazy parenting. There's no excuse for an 11 year old being allowed to have permission to interact with the website who's not mature enough to know they shouldn't be meeting strange old men at gas stations.
Exactly!!!!! If I thought my daughter didn't have the maturity and good sense to know how to play safe on the internet, I wouldn't let her play.
In fact, she is the one who told me about the porn being on the guild page. She read about it on the help chat board--the stupid person gave the name of the guild so every one could see for themselves. My daughter was smart enough to not look at the guild page (she said she didn't want to get grossed out) and instead immediately told me about it. She has also reported porn that she has found while doing a "safe search" on Google--it was porn in cartoon form, anime, but porn nonetheless. It really upsets her that people get away with this on the internet. Like I said earlier, a smart little cookie I have there.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:34 pm
Jumping in here, aren't you all happy 
Anyway, from what I understand the Chia pet thing is true, Neo was sued for using a copyright or trademarked name. Maybe they have to pay that company x amount of $ to use the name. And Macy Grey at least threatened to sue, I don't know if she did or not. But that pet became the Kau. I don't know if any arrangement/permission was given (or needed) for the usul.
There was a case of a US serviceman who met a girl on the neoboards, they then started talking via IM and he somehow convinced her to meet him and he took her out of the country - this happened I believe in England and he was caught with her in France?
There are predators out there, no question. Parents DO need to be aware of what their children are doing. Use the parental internet controls. Ask what sites they're going to, who they're talking to, impress the importance of never giving out any information - name, address, email, im, etc. No one needs to know that and no one should know that information. If possible, block children from using any sort of IM. I don't know if there is a way, but there should be if there isn't. I'd also remove, if they have one, a webcam. Sound harsh? Maybe, but there are people out there that can make the worst horror movie you've ever seen look like a happy, innocent cartoon.
That said, first of all the boards may get dicey, agreed, but first of all the monitors do really try, they don't have an easy job and there probably aren't enough of them for some of the nonsense that goes on. I have seen some truly vile posts, most are cleared pretty quickly really.
I don't think, legally, that they could have volunteer monitors. Not at this point. At the beginning of the site they did have volunteers, yes. But I think there was something about this, that it's a state law once you start paying employees or you become a for-profit site you can't use volunteers. Something like that. I just know they can't have volunteers anymore. I'm a mod on an image host forum, it's small, we all volunteer and the host site is a free one. I've already been told if they get to the point of being a "real" business, they'll have to start hiring within the state for mods.
Second, too many people on the site put their full name, a physical description, where they go to school, their email, their IM, their glophone (I hate that thing - I've heard too many stories about it), and even pictures of themselves on their lookups, pet pages, siggys or just post giving out information about themselves to just anyone.
So, this man may have been on the site, then again, he may not have been. Maybe, considering what was found in his home, he did a little research, found out about Neo, signed up and either posted on a board one of those awful messages asking for email/im and certain people with webcams, or he may have just sat, watched and waited for someone to post with their info. From there, email or IM conversations. Neopets, I don't think, should have any responsibility for what goes on outside of their site.
This has been a bit of bone of contention with me because people in, say, an rs im chat will get into an argument, one of the parties comes on the site and tells all their friends and the other person's mass reported and frozen - for something that happened off the site. That doesn't seem right to me.
So, if this woman decides to try to sue for her child going off with this man, I don't know if she has a real case. That is something only a lawyer can decide based on what they're told, what evidence that points directly at TNT, etc. Who should be sued? The man who did this. I know, you can't pay from jail and he should definitely go to jail. But his home, car, etc., whatever he owns should be sold and the proceeds to go the boy to help him deal with this. And the mother, I think, needs a course on internet safety at the very least.
Did anything happen to this child? Or did the boy have enough sense to feel that something just wasn't right and take off. I know, no matter what, this boy will more than likely need to talk to someone (professional) for awhile - that's assuming nothing bad did happen.
Morningstar, your daughter will have to be careful if she's doing an anime search. hentai is not allowed on Neo (as alot of things aren't but people try to pull - they need to be banned from the computer, not just Neo), but that form of "anime" and "manga" is all over the place. I've run into it and been shocked by some of the things I've seen, and I'm 49!
Anyway, from what I understand the Chia pet thing is true, Neo was sued for using a copyright or trademarked name. Maybe they have to pay that company x amount of $ to use the name. And Macy Grey at least threatened to sue, I don't know if she did or not. But that pet became the Kau. I don't know if any arrangement/permission was given (or needed) for the usul.
There was a case of a US serviceman who met a girl on the neoboards, they then started talking via IM and he somehow convinced her to meet him and he took her out of the country - this happened I believe in England and he was caught with her in France?
There are predators out there, no question. Parents DO need to be aware of what their children are doing. Use the parental internet controls. Ask what sites they're going to, who they're talking to, impress the importance of never giving out any information - name, address, email, im, etc. No one needs to know that and no one should know that information. If possible, block children from using any sort of IM. I don't know if there is a way, but there should be if there isn't. I'd also remove, if they have one, a webcam. Sound harsh? Maybe, but there are people out there that can make the worst horror movie you've ever seen look like a happy, innocent cartoon.
That said, first of all the boards may get dicey, agreed, but first of all the monitors do really try, they don't have an easy job and there probably aren't enough of them for some of the nonsense that goes on. I have seen some truly vile posts, most are cleared pretty quickly really.
I don't think, legally, that they could have volunteer monitors. Not at this point. At the beginning of the site they did have volunteers, yes. But I think there was something about this, that it's a state law once you start paying employees or you become a for-profit site you can't use volunteers. Something like that. I just know they can't have volunteers anymore. I'm a mod on an image host forum, it's small, we all volunteer and the host site is a free one. I've already been told if they get to the point of being a "real" business, they'll have to start hiring within the state for mods.
Second, too many people on the site put their full name, a physical description, where they go to school, their email, their IM, their glophone (I hate that thing - I've heard too many stories about it), and even pictures of themselves on their lookups, pet pages, siggys or just post giving out information about themselves to just anyone.
So, this man may have been on the site, then again, he may not have been. Maybe, considering what was found in his home, he did a little research, found out about Neo, signed up and either posted on a board one of those awful messages asking for email/im and certain people with webcams, or he may have just sat, watched and waited for someone to post with their info. From there, email or IM conversations. Neopets, I don't think, should have any responsibility for what goes on outside of their site.
This has been a bit of bone of contention with me because people in, say, an rs im chat will get into an argument, one of the parties comes on the site and tells all their friends and the other person's mass reported and frozen - for something that happened off the site. That doesn't seem right to me.
So, if this woman decides to try to sue for her child going off with this man, I don't know if she has a real case. That is something only a lawyer can decide based on what they're told, what evidence that points directly at TNT, etc. Who should be sued? The man who did this. I know, you can't pay from jail and he should definitely go to jail. But his home, car, etc., whatever he owns should be sold and the proceeds to go the boy to help him deal with this. And the mother, I think, needs a course on internet safety at the very least.
Did anything happen to this child? Or did the boy have enough sense to feel that something just wasn't right and take off. I know, no matter what, this boy will more than likely need to talk to someone (professional) for awhile - that's assuming nothing bad did happen.
Morningstar, your daughter will have to be careful if she's doing an anime search. hentai is not allowed on Neo (as alot of things aren't but people try to pull - they need to be banned from the computer, not just Neo), but that form of "anime" and "manga" is all over the place. I've run into it and been shocked by some of the things I've seen, and I'm 49!
Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:51 pm
everconfused wrote:Anyway, from what I understand the Chia pet thing is true, Neo was sued for using a copyright or trademarked name. Maybe they have to pay that company x amount of $ to use the name. And Macy Grey at least threatened to sue, I don't know if she did or not. But that pet became the Kau. I don't know if any arrangement/permission was given (or needed) for the usul.
I've never heard of anything named Usul, other than the Neopet. Who would've sued for that name?
I also think that there was some sort of a legal problem concerning the Bruce, which, when Neopets started, looked like (and, at one point actually was a photo) of Bruce Forsyth.
Last edited by remybuxaplentyfan on Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:00 pm
I am always happy to hear from you!!!!!! Because you make the size of my posts look normal.everconfused wrote:Jumping in here, aren't you all happy
You and I together could write a very long, long book, eh?everconfused wrote:Morningstar, your daughter will have to be careful if she's doing an anime search. hentai is not allowed on Neo (as alot of things aren't but people try to pull - they need to be banned from the computer, not just Neo), but that form of "anime" and "manga" is all over the place. I've run into it and been shocked by some of the things I've seen, and I'm 49!
Supposedly, if you do a "safe" search on Google, all porn is blocked--But, maybe they haven't caught onto cartoon porn yet.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:03 pm
remybuxaplentyfan wrote:everconfused wrote:Anyway, from what I understand the Chia pet thing is true, Neo was sued for using a copyright or trademarked name. Maybe they have to pay that company x amount of $ to use the name. And Macy Grey at least threatened to sue, I don't know if she did or not. But that pet became the Kau. I don't know if any arrangement/permission was given (or needed) for the usul.
I've never heard of anything named Usul, other than the Neopet. Who would've sued for that name?
I also think that there was some sort of a legal problem concerning the Bruce, which, when Neopets started, looked like (and, at one point actually was a photo) of Bruce Forsythe.
Author Frank Herbert wrote a series of 8 books. The first is called Dune (and neo has a book called nune...so someone's read these). In the first book one of the main characters, Paul Atreides is on this planet, which is called Dune. He ends up becoming a desert dweller with a tribe of Fremen, who give him his first desert name, Usul, which in the language of the Fremen means the base of the pillar. Page 301 of Dune is where that name is first written. I have no idea if anything was ever done or said about the use of that name. Just brought it up as a possibility.
Morningstar
We'd have to write a series of books, if we tried to write just one, no one would be able to lift it! And the anime thing? That particular "style" is just included for some reason.
Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:20 am
Johnnydontgo wrote:Erin wrote:Johnnydontgo wrote:dreamer wrote:I thought you had to be 13 to use the chat boards.
Yes, you do.
Well, if the kid was 11, doesn't that kind of throw that woman's case out the window? I mean, if he was under 13, he couldn't have been using the chat boards legitimately, could he?
Well, technically, no. But if you tell your kid not to play in someone elses yard, and he does it, then breaks his leg, you can still sue the owner.. I don't know if this theory applies to big corporations (that I'm sure would have strict rules absolving them of blame).
It's trying to be monitored but what can you do about those who lie about their age so that they can get into guilds, ect.
Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:54 am
I'm 11, too. I've been surfing the Web since I was eight, and I've known all these years never to give out personal info unless I consider it safe (ie. telling people I live in California is fine, as thousands of people live there). That boy was a complete idiot to do that. I'm smart enough to dismiss the chat boards as immature, and I only signed up as 13+ to use Neomail and guilds.
And the mother was unbelievably ignorant to sue Neo. What, is she going to sue every site that's not completely kid-friendly because her little angel-pie might view it?
What was she so "shocked" about, anyway?
And the mother was unbelievably ignorant to sue Neo. What, is she going to sue every site that's not completely kid-friendly because her little angel-pie might view it?
What was she so "shocked" about, anyway?
Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:07 am
Tonu wrote:I can't see why TNT don't hire more monitors... The chats are out of control. I would even mod voluntarily!
I think....it was a long tim ago....so not 100%...but i THINK that when np started..they gave mod powers to members....i dont think it went over well tho.
Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:49 am
Suing for using "chia" was sort of silly. I dont see Nintendo suing for the pikachu thing in the gallery of evil. Also, no one has sued neo for using "jubjub" or "wocky" (creations of Lewis Carroll)
Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:12 am
Fishblade_Bluestream wrote:I'm 11, too. I've been surfing the Web since I was eight, and I've known all these years never to give out personal info unless I consider it safe (ie. telling people I live in California is fine, as thousands of people live there). That boy was a complete idiot to do that. I'm smart enough to dismiss the chat boards as immature, and I only signed up as 13+ to use Neomail and guilds.
And the mother was unbelievably ignorant to sue Neo. What, is she going to sue every site that's not completely kid-friendly because her little angel-pie might view it?
What was she so "shocked" about, anyway?
Yes, I agree with you. I'm 12 and I've been using the internet since I was about....7 or so. Unless she has never used the internet at all then I really don't know what she was shocked about.
Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:02 am
~Neo~ wrote:Fishblade_Bluestream wrote:I'm 11, too. I've been surfing the Web since I was eight, and I've known all these years never to give out personal info unless I consider it safe (ie. telling people I live in California is fine, as thousands of people live there). That boy was a complete idiot to do that. I'm smart enough to dismiss the chat boards as immature, and I only signed up as 13+ to use Neomail and guilds.
And the mother was unbelievably ignorant to sue Neo. What, is she going to sue every site that's not completely kid-friendly because her little angel-pie might view it?
What was she so "shocked" about, anyway?
Yes, I agree with you. I'm 12 and I've been using the internet since I was about....7 or so. Unless she has never used the internet at all then I really don't know what she was shocked about.
She shouldn't be the least bit shocked of this happening on a virtual pets site designed for young children?
Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:24 am
kamehameha0 wrote:~Neo~ wrote:Fishblade_Bluestream wrote:I'm 11, too. I've been surfing the Web since I was eight, and I've known all these years never to give out personal info unless I consider it safe (ie. telling people I live in California is fine, as thousands of people live there). That boy was a complete idiot to do that. I'm smart enough to dismiss the chat boards as immature, and I only signed up as 13+ to use Neomail and guilds.
And the mother was unbelievably ignorant to sue Neo. What, is she going to sue every site that's not completely kid-friendly because her little angel-pie might view it?
What was she so "shocked" about, anyway?
Yes, I agree with you. I'm 12 and I've been using the internet since I was about....7 or so. Unless she has never used the internet at all then I really don't know what she was shocked about.
She shouldn't be the least bit shocked of this happening on a virtual pets site designed for young children?
No, she shouldn't--anyone can claim to be a kid on a kid's site. It's not like they check your photo id at the door. This is the 21st century--people scam others online and in real life--all of the time. Every other day you hear of some kid or young person being abducted or killed.
This isn't the first time that a kid has gotten into trouble because of the internet--there have been several new stories recently about just this type of thing happening. Last year, there was a big national story about a young girl who lived in my city who went online claiming to be 21 and wanting to meet a man. Naturally, a man replied. He thought she was 21 and suggested they meet several hours from where she lived in his hometown. She left her home and stayed with his guy and his family for the weekend. She looked 21 to him though she was a minor (16?). Her parents reported her missing and finally, the guy's family saw her picture on TV and put two and two together. The guy was never charged with any sort of crime because she had misled him and when he found out she was a minor, he was horrified--because he had never had any intention of doing anything but meeting another adult via the internet.
So unless the mother was living in a box or lacked the mental capacitiy to be able to raise a child, she should know that anyone and everyone can go online and claim to be anyone they want to be.
If she was smart enough to buy the internet for her child (which isn't cheap), then she should be smart enough to know what exactly the internet is and what it can do. And, if she didn't, she should have learned all she could about it before letting her kid go online. And go online long enough to be able to connect with this old pervert, have his guy win the kid's confidence, have the kid divulge personal info, and then have the kid and the guy schedule a time to meet up. Obviously, the on-line conversation the kid had with the man wasn't one time on the chat board or one neomail. This had to have happened over a period of time. Once again, I ask where was the mother during this period of time that the child was on the computer?
Ultimately, the responsibility for raising a child rests with the parent. Neopets isn't to be used as a "babysitter" while the mom is running errands, chatting on the phone, getting her nails done, working after school hours while the child is left alone, etc. --and I should know, I am a mom!
Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:56 am
Morningstar wrote:Kids under age 13 can't access the chat boards unless the parent has given permission or unless they lied and said they were over 13 when they created the account. If this particular kid is only 11 and was on the chat boards, he had to lie on his Neopets account. Because of that, I doubt that the lawsuit will have a chance. Also, unless the child was harmed in some way, I don't see what charges could be filed against Neopets.
After seeing porn on a person's guild page sit for over an hour before the guild was disabled, I could understand a parent's outrage. Neopets is definitely slacking off in its monitoring of the site since I started playing.
However, I think the parents should also share most of the blame here. Parents need to keep a close check on their kids--not just turn them loose on the computer without ever monitoring what the kids are doing. When my preteen daughter first wanted to play Neopets, my husband checked it out thoroughly before letting her play it. And, we sat her down and gave her our rules and, more importantly, explained why she should never give out her name, age, school, address, or other personal information and what to do if someone did ask her for any of those. I also explained that people could and would pretend to be kids and why these people did these sort of things. She has seen enough on the news to know that Mr. Stranger Danger does exist and does bad things to kids.
She also got a healthy dose of internet does and don't in her school system. And, we set up our computers so that my computer and her computer are in the same room--I generally play when she plays--so I can see what she's up to. She will never have a computer in her bedroom and never have a web cam. If I even got a whiff that she was up to no good, I'd take the computer cord that connects her computer to the wall outlet and toss it away.
I also know that I have to trust my daughter because I can't be by her side 24/7. She will get peer pressure to do all sorts of things eventually and she will have to be able to figure out why she shouldn't cave in. By giving her trust, she knows that she can come to me and tell me anything and I will try to understand. She is a smart little cookie. She has seen the chat boards and hates the junk that is written on them. I don't invade her privacy, read her diary, or read her emails--but she knows that if I ever thought something was going on, I have the absolute right to do so and I would do so in a heartbeat!
Obviously these particular parents didn't do a very good job of raising this kid. A kid who is 11 should know enough not to give out his address to a stranger and definitely know enough to not to agree to meet anyone that he/she hasn't seen before. Why weren't the parents paying closer attention to what the kid was doing? Where were the parents when this kid was going out to meet this man?
I make it a habit to personally meet all of the parents of my daughter's friends. Before letting her go to a new friend's house, I call or meet the parents first. At this age, my daughter isn't allowed to go anywhere alone--she has to either be accompanied by me, her dad, a babysitter, a friend, or a friend's mother. I do let her go alone to rollerblade around the block, go to her friend's house across the alley, and go to the park that is two blocks away, but only if she tells me first, takes a cell phone and checks in with me from time to time. And if she is going to a friend's house that is farther than two blocks away, I drive her there. Call me a protective mother, but, unfortunately, in this day and age of predators, that is what you have to be.
If you are looking for lawsuits filed against Neopets, you could find them by checking out the courthouse of the County in which Neopets, Inc. is located. You put a search into their computer system and it will spit out a list of case numbers. You would then have look each of those case numbers up to see the details of the lawsuit. I don't know if you can do this online, however. You might have to go to the courthouse itself to do so--depends on the County as to how it does things.
you sound like a wonderful mother
I wish more people cared about what their kids got up to on the internet (and in general), then maybe this whole thing wouldn't have happened.