Six Confirmed Bus and Tube Explosions in Central London

[Matt]

He's asian.

And why should that be a factor in determining whether someone could potentially harbour a bomb?

[Trick]

yes I have to admit, I was kindof making my descision based on assumptions. The guy who was shot five times in the head...is a very controversial issue, highly worthy of debate. Here's the basic story:
A person walks out of a building which was under suspicion by the police.
He's wearing innappropriate clothes for the time of year.
He's asian.
He tries to get on a train and the police yell at him to stop.
He jumps over the barrier and lunges into the train anyway.
He's tripped and falls over onto the ground.
A policeman leans over him and shoots him five times in the face from 20-30 cms away.

It seems to me like this person was a drug dealer and that the police system have become way too paranoid.

Firstly he wasn't asian, he was a very light skinned Brazillian. He was completely innocent, has no criminal history and as the police have desribed it as a tragedy and given no crimes he is suspected of it's pretty clear he was a completely innocent person.

Also from his stand point police were not yelling at him to stop - they were plain clothes, and I haven't even heard an official person confirm that they shouted "stop, police" and the eyewitnesses have said that the police didn't shout who they were but just told people to get down.

So an innocent person, not asian so as to be confused with one of the attacks suspected suicide bombers (as if that is enough proof anyway, hah :/ ) rushed at by armed strangers who shoot him. An innocent man - I dread to think what the backlash is going to be from all this and I feel so bad for friends and family of that man, he could have been any one of us from the sounds of it as there is no evidence he was a shady character at all :/ So paranoid yes, but drug dealer no.

[Asthaloth]

as it seems to have been ignored, i'll say it again.
The problem with Internal security is that you onl hear about the failures.
you dont hear "ZomG!!1!!1 we gotsorz theirzorz Bomzorz!!1!1111" every five minutes now do ya

You do on the news. "A suspected Al-Qieda member has been arrested on charge of planning an act of terrorism". It's just very rare that they do actually manage to find the people behind possible attacks.

yeah. because MI5/6 have the time to pick up idiots who are planting car bombs right?
there after the guys with the Nuclear weapons that dissapeared, after the guys who have picked up the odd EMP, or the ocassional chemical/bio weapon.
woopey, some guy with a nail-bomb's been caught.
woops. we missed the guy whos just ground london to a halt with a large EMP though. damn.

[Matt]

yes I have to admit, I was kindof making my descision based on assumptions. The guy who was shot five times in the head...is a very controversial issue, highly worthy of debate. Here's the basic story:
A person walks out of a building which was under suspicion by the police.
He's wearing innappropriate clothes for the time of year.
He's asian.
He tries to get on a train and the police yell at him to stop.
He jumps over the barrier and lunges into the train anyway.
He's tripped and falls over onto the ground.
A policeman leans over him and shoots him five times in the face from 20-30 cms away.

It seems to me like this person was a drug dealer and that the police system have become way too paranoid.

Firstly he wasn't asian, he was a very light skinned Brazillian. He was completely innocent, has no criminal history and as the police have desribed it as a tragedy and given no crimes he is suspected of it's pretty clear he was a completely innocent person.

Also from his stand point police were not yelling at him to stop - they were plain clothes, and I haven't even heard an official person confirm that they shouted "stop, police" and the eyewitnesses have said that the police didn't shout who they were but just told people to get down.

So an innocent person, not asian so as to be confused with one of the attacks suspected suicide bombers (as if that is enough proof anyway, hah :/ ) rushed at by armed strangers who shoot him. An innocent man - I dread to think what the backlash is going to be from all this and I feel so bad for friends and family of that man, he could have been any one of us from the sounds of it as there is no evidence he was a shady character at all :/ So paranoid yes, but drug dealer no.

Just to take another side of the argument:
If the man was a bomber, and the police let him get on the train, what would you be saying now, when there's however many deaths...

[Josephine]

The already minimal respect we have for the police in this country is going to end up down the toilet now.

All I have to say, I don't feel like arguing over the horrible death of an innocent man.

I just feel for his family and friends.

[Trick]

Just to take another side of the argument:
If the man was a bomber, and the police let him get on the train, what would you be saying now, when there's however many deaths...

That's not a different side to the argument, it's a completely different scenario. Before I was of the feeling that I was shocked that the police had shot someone dead and sure that the police must have had beyond reasonable doubt that this man was dangerous, that he had run from the police after they had identified themselves. The scenario now appears to be however that there was not a shred of evidence, that the police did not identify themselves, the man had no connections to extremists or any kind of muslim connections at all and yet he was pinned to the ground and shot dead.

Wholly different scenarios. If he had been a bomber then I would have expected the police to act as they saw best in the knowledge that the police are far better equipped to deal with such situations. That knowledge has now been shattered, and I imagine the same can be said of people's faith in those police and of those police's faith in theirselves.

In addition I really don't see the point to all these posts trying to start debates over such a terrible situation - is that not something that would be better positioned in the debates board rather than on a thread that has been used primarily to express sorrow and shock? It would be nice for people to be able to give their opinions and feelings without being challenged so much on such a sensitive issue, and I imagine that for other people as well as myself it makes for uncomfortable reading when you choose not to go to the debates board for those reasons.

Like Josephine said, I do not want to argue over a man's death in any way either.

[Sapphire Faerie]

In addition I really don't see the point to all these posts trying to start debates over such a terrible situation - is that not something that would be better positioned in the debates board rather than on a thread that has been used primarily to express sorrow and shock? It would be nice for people to be able to give their opinions and feelings without being challenged so much on such a sensitive issue, and I imagine that for other people as well as myself it makes for uncomfortable reading when you choose not to go to the debates board for those reasons.

You're exactly right.

The only reason this thread has remained open is so people can have a place to go to discuss it, for information, for comfort, for closure, etc.
This thread was never meant to be a debate. We have a debate board for a reason.
You all no better, and you've all been warned.
No. More. Debating. In. Misc. Disc.
I can't get any clearer than that.
You're more than welcome to go make a thread in Debate. In fact, I would encourage it. But end the debating here. Or I'll hit you with my mod stick, and believe me, you won't enjoy it.

[sparkygoesforth]

I just want to echo the sentiments of the last two posts: an innocent 27-year-old Brazilian electrician killed in tragic circumstances, action sure to have dire consequences for all involved. A truly horrible event that should not have happened And still no guarantee the original bombers have been caught - one thing we can assume now is that there are at least 4 men alive and in this country right now who are prepared to attempt suicide bombing again. I hope they are caught as quickly as possible. London was very lucky last Thursday.

[dood]

He's asian.

And why should that be a factor in determining whether someone could potentially harbour a bomb?

It doesn't. It just made the police think that he was more likely to be harbouring a bomb.

In addition, it turns out I was wrong. He wasn't asian. For some strange reason several news reports said that he was when, as someone who's name escapes me on this board said, he was in fact light skinned Brazilian.

[Ammer]

He's asian.

And why should that be a factor in determining whether someone could potentially harbour a bomb?

It doesn't. It just made the police think that he was more likely to be harbouring a bomb.

In addition, it turns out I was wrong. He wasn't asian. For some strange reason several news reports said that he was when, as someone who's name escapes me on this board said, he was in fact light skinned Brazilian.

It does matter. You should know that if you're asian than you're at risk of being targetted by the police.

[Josephine]

As my (Asian) friend put it -

"If a load of blokes [they were plain clothed Police) started shouting at me and chasing me through a place where bombs had just gone off, admist all the panic, and then shooting at me, I'd run away too."

And not always, but quite often, racists within the police force will target those from a miniority more often. It's a fact of life. Sometimes, the British Police force stinks.

However, I must not forget that they are trying thier hardest to do what is right, and to find the criminals behind the murder of innocent people.

I just think that the death of the innocent man could have been avoided.

[dood]

He's asian.

And why should that be a factor in determining whether someone could potentially harbour a bomb?

It doesn't. It just made the police think that he was more likely to be harbouring a bomb.

In addition, it turns out I was wrong. He wasn't asian. For some strange reason several news reports said that he was when, as someone who's name escapes me on this board said, he was in fact light skinned Brazilian.

It does matter. You should know that if you're asian than you're at risk of being targetted by the police.

I never said it didn't matter...