Contests in Guilds: Should They Be Allowed?

hyperknuckles77 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:35 pm

I was advertising our Guild, Supreme Kingdom (Home of the Masters), at the Neoboards, when suddenly...

I received a warning from The Neopets Team (TNT), telling me that running contests in Guilds is strictly prohibited. I don’t know about this. What I know is that requiring participants to pay in order to qualify in a contest is the one that’s not allowed. But a contest that does not require members to pay, like being the most active member, winning a Tournament, or referring the most number of members to the Guild, in my opinion & own understanding, does not violate this rule, as long as the contest doesn’t require you to pay/donate in order to qualify. I have read about a past Neopian Times Editorial wherein TNT said contests in shops are no longer allowed, since some owners are not honest about the raffle. It’s clear that TNT is emphasizing the rule “no contests that require compulsory buying to qualify for a raffle” or something like that. But they didn’t say free contests are not allowed. I believe that their rule about contests only covers those that require compulsory payment/buying/donating. Otherwise, all the other contests that are for free will & must be allowed. I also can’t seem to find anywhere from the Neorules that contests in Guilds are prohibited.

So, what can YOU say abut this? Do you think contests in Guilds should really be removed even if they do not require you to pay neopoints? Do you think it is justifiable that TNT (or a Moderator, for that matter) warns me of an account freeze & guild deletion if we continue running contests? Do you think that particular Moderator did just the right thing (sent me a warning) or do you think he/she is just a dumb Mod who thought free contests are not allowed? Should we really stop all our Guild’s ongoing FREE contests despite the fact that tons of other Guilds run a “donation raffle” kind of contest (which is obviously NOT our way of running contests)?

Please post your comments.

Runevalkyrie · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:43 pm

Try here: http://www.neopets.com/termsfaq.phtml

Terms and Conditions FAQ wrote:

Q. My Guild came up with this great contest involving Neopian trivia. Is it okay to run this contest with prizes in the Guild only?
A. Contests, promotions, lotteries, FTPs, Wishboards, or raffles are not permitted anywhere on Neopets, including in shops and guilds. Because many of these contests are scams to get free NP, items, or make people buy over-priced items, we can't allow any contests. Period.

They do have a right to ban contests altogether because of a few rotten people who have taken advantage of such things in the past.

Dustin · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:46 pm

In my opinion, I don't think contests should be allowed. If someone loses they may get upset and decide to send an email to TNT about it, and I'm sure this happens often.. filling up TNT's inbox. I'm sure it can be annoying. And also, people try to have "donations" to buy prizes for contests, yet they never buy the prizes. And so on.

But, If I recall correctly it's okay to have contests as long as you don't promise to give prizes. But, you can randomly give out items to the winners. So, just don't promise prizes.

Eileen · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:51 pm

Yes, this is one issue I am pretty sure what is going on but I am also a little confused. Back a few months ago (may have been a year) I owned a guild. We only had 8 members and I had a website with TONS of contests on it. There were no raffles, just contests like Mystery Pic or Better than You. I didn't even call them contests, I called them activites. I wanted to add more to the guild front page so I decided to say about a numbers contest. I typed that if you guess the number I am thinking of, you'll get a prize. Shortly after that I recieved a warning from TNT. Being the paranoid girl that I am, I quickly deleted that guild.

Now let's fast forward to the present. I am in a wonderful guild called The Neopian Orphanage. I believe it use to be hosted by PPT or something like that. Anyways TNO is a huge guild. It had 10K members until they made a new guild which already has over 1000 members. It is probably one of the biggest guilds on Neopets. On TNO's website they have contests. No raffles or anything just contests where you submit an anwser. The anwsers arent submitted through neomail, they have a little form to fill out. They call them contests too. If you go to their front page of the guild, it doesnt even mention contests.

I was very curious to know how TNO was able to have contests. I have a feeling TNT knows about TNO since it it so big. After all my guild only had 8 members and TNT notices it. I posted a message asking about it and I was told that TNO is allowed to have contests because they are off-neopets and not mentioned on the guild front page. Not one part of the contest takes place on neopets except for giving out prizes.

So I suppose that you are allowed to have contests as long as none of its mentioned on neopets. I wouldnt even advise having someone send you a neomail about entering the contest. Put up a little form. Now I am not 100% sure that is unfreezable, but if you are willing to take a chance...

I believe neo can't freeze you for what you do offsite. Or can they?

LAQ · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:51 pm

The way my guild does it is they put the contest on a non-Neopets page, and then in the entry shop they don't mention anything about contests. That's a way to get around it I think.

hyperknuckles77 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:51 pm

Eileen, I guess you're right. I think we should have made all the contests exclusively at our Guild's Website instead. Though I don't know the HTML Code (or is it CSS?) for the Form thingy. It's kinda advanced. All I know are basic HTML Codes like Hyperlinks and stuff like that.

Runevalkyrie, actually, it confuses me even more whenever I see TNT's explanation of "scams to get free NP, items, or make people buy over-priced items", since all our guild contests are completely free.

Quote:

And also, people try to have "donations" to buy prizes for contests, yet they never buy the prizes. And so on.

Dustin, we make sure that at the end of the month, we use ALL the money from our Guild Fund, leaving only less than or about 1,000 NP in the Bank (of the Guild Account). We use everything that is collected from the entire month. And besides, we do not require them to donate. Only people with willing hearts are the ones who donate to our Guild. Donating was NEVER our way to get "entries" for any contests in the Guild.

So, thanks to all of you who responded. Sorry if I sounded rude. I just didn't mean to. I'll probably just make offsite contests for the Guild next time. That is, if I'll ever learn how to make a submission form.

IcyBlue · **Posts:** 610 **Joined:** Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:30 pm

The only way I could ever see TNT allowing guild contests is if they set up some sort of system to hold the Neopoints and Prizes to guarantee that the person gets their prize.

It could be sort of like the Trading Post. The leader/council puts a prize into the guild pot, and then they leader can initialize a contest of some sort. Once the contest is over, then the leader can have the option of giving the item/np prize.

Eileen · **Posted:** Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:09 am

If you want to make a form go to the following website:

mycontactform.com

I have used it before and it works really well!

If you have any questions just PM me and I'll do my best to assist you.

Inrun Edit: We are not the neopets forums, please don't use really large font unless you need to. It's just distracting and considered yelling when as large as what it was.

Eeek sorry! I didnt think it was at that big, I use it at my guild's forum (not on neopets) and it looks fine there.

hyperknuckles77 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:26 am

Ok, thanks! I'll go to that website when I have the time, to learn how to make these form thingies.

But still, upcoming Guild projects are all just in plan. I'm afraid to take the risk of running offsite contests, but since you said TNO has contests, I guess it would be fair and alright if we also do ours in our own offsite Website.

Asparagus Queen · **Posts:** 715 **Joined:** Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:01 am

I'm guessing that this is how PPT is allowed to run contests here at the forum as well? Since they're held off-site, and the only Neopets activity is handing out the prize.

Also, in the Neopets Magazine last year or so, there was an article that said competitions are allowed. Perhaps that's not the truth anymore?

Quote:

*quoted~From the Neopets Magazine, verbatim~*
Contests vs. Competitions
Often times, when attempting to generate interest in their guilds, people will make the mistake of offering 'contests.' Regardless of whether their intentions are noble or not, the fact is that this is simply not allowed on the Neopets site. Any time that you say, "I will give you a reward for winning (or even participating) in such and such an activity," then you are entering a situation where, more ofthen than not, people end up getting scammed.

On the other hand, if you announce to your guild members that a competition is being held (let's say, a competition to see who can make the best drawing), and you do not offer or promise any prizes as part of the competition, then that is perfectly within the rules of the neopets site. Now, as the person running the guild, you have an active interest in getting as many people as possible to participate in our competition (because, naturaly, the more people who take part, the more interest there will be in your guild).

Therefore, if you decide (after the competition has taken place) to give one/some of the particiaptn(s) an item(s) of your own, then there's nothing wrong with that, either - after all (at least in theory) people didn't sing up for your competition because they were being told they would get something, remember? By the same token, there are no rules saying that you can't just give someone an item out of the kindness of your generous little heart. Wink

So, just to recap:
A contest is an activity where the participants are offered (or promised) the possibility of receiving a prize in exchange for participating in (or 'winning') that activity. This is NOT allowed on the Neopets site.

A competition is an activity in which participants are never offered (or promised) the possibility of receiving a prize in exchange for their involvement. They participate solely because they want to. This is allowed by the Neopets site. keeping this in mind, should ghe proprietor of a guild decide to give an item(s) to someone who happened to be a particiapnt in one of their competitions, then this is okay, as there are no rules against this on the Neopets site.

everconfused · **Posted:** Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:17 am

Actually, contests were always against the rules. It's just that so many people either got scammed or felt that they were being scammed that TNT had to do something. Which is this case meant enforcing the rules.

Yes, it's a shame for all the honest guilds that had fun contests, giveaways, motm, motw, etc. The guild I used to be in was one of those. I should know, I was in charge of a few things. As soon as TNT decided that the no contest/giveaway/raffle rule was going to be enforced we not only stopped all such activities, we returned anything that anyone had sent or spent to enter and closed our guild webbie.

The FAQ states

Quote:

Contests, promotions, lotteries, FTPs, Wishboards, or raffles are not permitted anywhere on Neopets, including in shops and guilds. Because many of these contests are scams to get free NP, items, or make people buy over-priced items, we can't allow any contests. Period.

From the T&C:

Quote:

5. Respect The Community.
Remember, people who play on Neopets are of all ages and backgrounds. Therefore, all user content and communications on the Neopets site is filtered and monitored. So that everyone has a good time, you understand and agree that you will not post or send through the site any words, images or links containing or relating to:

* profanity, obscenities ("swear words"), sexual content (express or implied, including inappropriate acts with or by your pets for "real" or in role play)
* cybering
* romance role playing
* dating requests or offers for yourself, other people, or your Neopets
* attacks, comments, or opinions about other people or things that slander, defame, threaten, insult or harass another person
* gangs, gang-slang, or the promotion of gangs
* chat rooms or links to sites with chat rooms
* promotions offering prizes of any sort (including contests, raffles, lotteries, chain letters or any kind of giveaway)

But people could still be scammed by unscrupulous guild members by putting these things on a guild webbie. So I just don't think it's worth the risk to your account or anyone else's to try it.

Asparagus Queen · **Posts:** 715 **Joined:** Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:01 am

everconfused wrote:

But people could still be scammed by unscrupulous guild members by putting these things on a guild webbie. So I just don't think it's worth the risk to your account or anyone else's to try it.

In the No Nutritional Value forum though, we offer contests where the winners are rewarded with neopoints or items. Set contests, etc, that right from the start say "best set wins x amount of nps". So is PPT wrong for allowing these contests? Other off-site websites do that too, are all of them wrong and should stop? Does Neopets have any way to stop them, especially when they don't know whose username on the website matches the neopets username?

everconfused · **Posted:** Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:39 pm

Asparagus Queen wrote:

everconfused wrote:

But people could still be scammed by unscrupulous guild members by putting these things on a guild webbie. So I just don't think it's worth the risk to your account or anyone else's to try it.

In the No Nutritional Value forum though, we offer contests where the winners are rewarded with neopoints or items. Set contests, etc, that right from the start say "best set wins x amount of nps". So is PPT wrong for allowing these contests? Other off-site websites do that too, are all of them wrong and should stop? Does Neopets have any way to stop them, especially when they don't know whose username on the website matches the neopets username?

good question! I don't know to be honest. Maybe an idea would be for us to call them competitions, not say first place gets ___, etc. and just pm anyone who enters the competitions after it's done.

Medusa · **Posted:** Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:26 am

hyperknuckles77 wrote:

Runevalkyrie, actually, it confuses me even more whenever I see TNT's explanation of "scams to get free NP, items, or make people buy over-priced items", since all our guild contests are completely free.

Quote:

And also, people try to have "donations" to buy prizes for contests, yet they never buy the prizes. And so on.

I believe the more relevant part of the sentence in the TNT FAQ is:

Quote:

Because many of these contests are scams to get free NP, items, or make people buy over-priced items, we can't allow any contests. Period.

I can see some of the logic though. If TNT started allowing free contests it would make the rule seem less serious and people wouldn't think about the rule before doing a contest that you have to pay for. Not only that but Moderators jobs are busy enough as it is without having to try and distinguish between whether contests are "free" or not. Its just easier for everyone if the rule is enforced for everyone.

I addition, you may not have to pay to enter the contests but prizes may still be awarded. Obviously there's the possibility of conflicts where some entrants believe that the people running the contest are favouring some people over others - they may not pay to enter but its still unfair.

Chipper · **Posted:** Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:15 am

Our guild got that same message a couple of months ago. We had weekly givaways ect. You didn't even have to do anything to be entered just be active and post at least once that week so we knew you were still in the guild. I did't see any harm in that. Now were afraid to beath or we might get a warning.

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