Pink Poogle Toy Forum

Go ahead and argue with me, but Neopets works very hard to see that its immersive advertising connects with users. No, nobody is dragged kicking and screaming to play the games. As all of you recall, I got very upset at the McDonald's pet feeding area and one of their games last summer. McDonald's was using the game for a LYING public relations campaign. I realized what I was doing and tried playing differently.

I do avoid things on the Neopets site. I boycott the Advent Calendar because I am Jewish and I consider advent, the lead up to the birth of Jesus, a Christian religious festival. Neopets also does not celebrate Channaukah but does celebrate Cinco de Mayo and Chinese New Year.

Despite my plan to play only for fun, I ended up very wealthy indeed in spite of myself and now have some of the wealth sheltered on another account.

I also play way too many sponsor games, though I will avoid the game if I think the advertising is unethical. If someone like me is gettng sucked in to this gyre, then so are other people.

I even know the mechanism. Here is how it works. It's called a big fat bribe.

Most sponsor games pay more, many are easier, and many are of shorter duration and do not require as intense concentration, as nonsponsor games.

If you do not believe me try playing Limited Too Mix and Match and Kiko Match 2. The games are identical but Limited Too Mix and Match gives me scores of around 300 points a game versus 150 points for Kiko Match.

Chicken Little is a NP goldmine. You can make between 500-900NP for each for a very short play. I don't know any other game that scores so well.

Gambling games created by sponsors are risk free. You pay nothing and have unlimited tries as long as you don't send a score. You can send only the good scores. Mirinda Lucky Drop is 200NP for each play (with 600NP per day). The Chicken Little game is a variation of three card monte and as I said before I can win between 500-900NP per play.

The sponsor trivia quizzes are easy cash cows to milk. Licca-Chan which I play every day is 300NP a play (900NP total). I also play 7UP Fidosophy and Aly and AyJay. (These are each 200NP per play and 600NP per day so 1200NP for both of them.)

I don't play these games every day though I've taken to clicking the 900NP daily link.

Free money, especially cash which I can spend how I wish, is very hard to pass up. True, I have no use for most of the products the sponsors advertise. I'm too old for the Limited Too, and I live in the wrong country for Chicken Little, but someone else who likes a sweet deal may be a potential customer.

I've also noticed external adcertising that is well enough disguised to look like ads for Neopets games. I'll get some screen shots of this.

What the media needs to do is sign up a reporter as a participant observer. A pair of sharp adult eyes would see an awful lot that the kids they usually interview miss.

I think the outside world ought to get a good look at what goes on in Neopets.

Well... yes.

I guess the real question is: so what?

Immersive advertising is nothing new. It's been going on pretty much as long as there's been advertisements. Product placement is not new -- it's a concept that goes back at least a hundred years or more. The only difference nowadays is that the advertisements reach a broader audience and more quickly.

I really don't see though that a game sponsored by McDonald's is much different from a half hour cartoon like He-Man. It's a parent's responsibility to monitor what their child is doing on the Internet just as much as it is their responsibility to monitor what they're watching on television. Neopets is not a babysitter, they're a for profit company.

Hmm. Of course, you're free to not participate in any Neopets game, for any reason you choose. If Advent feels Christian to you, and you need to assert that it doesn't fit your religious beliefs, that's a good reason not to play.

I think the Advent Calendar as it exists in Neopia is definitely *not* Christian, though it's derived from a tradition common enough in countries with majority Christian populations. The Neopets Advent Calendar heralds the coming of a new *year* since it runs for the entire month of Celebrating. I see plenty of non-Christian symbols there -- the wreaths, the garlands, the trees -- that have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus and everything to do with the cycle of seasons in the northern hemisphere.

Likewise Easter eggs, common enough in Neopia, have nothing to do with Christ. Nor does Hallowe'en have any special Christian significance except what has been grafted onto an older tradition.

I think TNT doesn't celebrate Kwanzaa or Shichi-Go-San, either, and those are wonderful ethnic traditions that don't have any particular religious significance; maybe they might consider adding to the calendar. I do think they wouldn't add Hanukkah and Ramadan and Diwali and Wesak, because those are truly religious and haven't been secularized yet. But maybe if you ask nicely, TNT might accomodate you somehow?

PS -- about the immersive advertising, I think that *is* the Neopian religion: commercialization. I don't find it any more offensive in Neopia than anywhere else. I enjoy the game, but I have to keep telling myself it's just a game and not a Devotion...

Y'know, the word "advent" isn't necessarily a religious word. It just means "the coming or arrival, especially of something extremely important." It comes from the Latin "adventus," which just means arrival or approach. Advent(with a capital A) refers to a particular period of time, starting a few weeks before Christmas, rather than a festival, which is a specific occasion. The Advent Calendar fits both definitions, but personally I agree with background_noise that it heralds the coming year. But enough nitpicking about words.


OMG poor southern-hemispherers! Neopets is totally discriminating against them for living in the "wrong" hemisphere. Next year I'm boycotting the Advent Calendar until they add sunscreen and maps of Australia.(Kidding! Don't break my jaw.)

I know more Christians that don't celebrate Halloween than people of any other religion/nonreligion because they consider it pagan. One (Christian) girl I know actually called it "the Devil's holiday." I'm agnostic, and I personally love Halloween.

Well not exactly, but immersive advertising on Neopets along with the Neorules is a complex and very manipulative system of behavioralism in the service of commercialism.

There is an argument raging out there in the real world about how much commercialism is good for children. I'll leave that one alone.

It's the manipulation and behavioralism: extra Neopoints or items for participating in some activities and the risk of being reported for participating in others. This is a regime of reinforcement and punishment, carrot and stick. Behavioralism is only about fifty years old.

I don't have children, but were I a parent, I would have a long talk with them about external pats on the back and why you need to be self reliant and I think I would try to encourage alternatives. If necessary, I would do what I could to keep them out. I might also talk to other parents as well.

As for me, I am thinking about my bad habit of milking sponsor games. It is time to get back on the stick again. A few days ago I started drawing my pets as I really want them to look. I came up with six images. I haven't painted them yet, but I will have my pets to take with me should my account be frozen. That felt like a really good step in the right direction. It is easy to forget that all it takes is a web page or blog and some images of your own to play virtual pets. The whole thing does not require a vast database and network of external reinforcement.

The McDonald's restaurant and their gym game were and are particularly egregious because McDonalds and other fast food restaurants have been implicated in child hood obesity. Their food, or at least the popular items on their menu, are fat laden and tastey and if you supersize it you get the best value. The McDonalds on Neopets is the only one in the universe that does not serve burgers and fries. It is trying to convince the world that McDonalds fare is healthy and that they are on the side of the angels.

I can't speak about Licca-Chan but were I a Japanese parent, I might have harsh words for her and her creators as well. Parents need to know what goes on inside Neopets and then let them make an informed decision.

I'd rather have immersive advertising than have to pay to play (though, technically I do now, for Premium, but that's a whole other ballpark)...

Anyway, I enjoy a lot of the sponser games. I watched Charlie and the Chocolate Factory 3 times in theatres and bought the movie the day it came out. Playing the game was one more bit of fun for me. I can't shop at Limited Too... I'm too big and right now can't afford it.

I don't really mind the immersive advertising. I agree that parents should talk to their children before hand, but I doubt that many people who played went "Oh gee, I love those pants. I should go buy them." when playing the Limited Too game.

As for having pets to play with outside of the website, and being able to play without the network and such? I can do that, and I can't draw. I have them in my head. I have a HUGE imagination and always will. I don't need anybody around for me to entertain myself. But it's more fun to be able to do that with others.

Other than selling your TV, living your life through the telephone, and never touching the internet and leaving your home, there will be advertisments. That's something that we either have to learn to live with, or become a recluse. As I said, I'd rather "suffer" through the sponser games and pay to the manipulative, behavioralistic website and encourage their commercialism than play pyramids all day with banner ads surrounding my page.

Edit due to curiousity: I mean this in the most innocent way you can imagine, but after reading the posts you write, can I ask, in all seriousness... why do you play neopets? You seem to hate the immersive advertising, the censorship, the fact that they come out with new pets, their behavioralism and commercialization. You talk about how you can enjoy the game without being online because you're drawing your pets how you'd like them to look... and with that statement, makes me think that you don't like the pets, either. I mean this in a totally confused, innocent way... why?

For example: I play neopets because I have fun there. I love my pets (as much as I guess most people can love pixels, hehe) and enjoy a place where I can make money by playing games (boy howdy I wish that happened all the time!). I can work toward a goal and achieve it and enjoy myself, and make friends of the same minds as me from all around the globe. Sure, some things (*cough*Gnorbu*cough*Ogrin*cough*) are frustrating, but I learn to roll with the punches and keep on smiling... after all, something good is bound to happen soon after! But you don't seem to enjoy anything about it. So why still play if it upsets you that much?

That's kind of harsh. At my high school, caps and gowns, yearbooks, and class rings must all be bought through Jostens. We have Pepsi machines, and students sell candy from the M&M/Mars company for fundraisers. The school faculty isn't trying to "convince" us that Jostens has first-rate stuff, or that Pepsi is good for you, or that Snickers bars will help save your soul: they're trying to make money, just like the Neopets corporation and MacDonald's.
Eating at MacDonald's is something I personally like to do, but I do so in moderation, because it's not the healthiest food out there. Neither is a lot of food. It's my personal responsibility and my decision to eat the foods I eat. With little kids, it's their parents' responsibility to teach them good eating habits. Kids today are growing up with advertisements--so many that they're already learning to ignore them. Product placement is normal in movies and on television. Sponsor games are just another form of product placement. No one's forcing you to play those games, just like no one's forcing you to eat at MacDonald's, so really it's no more invasive(in my opnion) than watching a commercial.

You've got some broad generalizations there, a whole lot of emotion, opinion, and have provided almost no facts to back up a lot of what you've said. It's hard to respond to much of it since it's just your opinion and you're entitled to that. Nobody can argue that your perception is invalid, though.

As long as there have been children, there has been behavioralism. Have kids some day and try letting them run wild without showing them there are consequences for their actions, don't punish them, don't reinforce good or bad behavior, and call me when you have gone crazy and pulled all your hair out and your kids are on the nightly news for actually driving through a McDonalds

Immersive Advertising...'ol Dougie may have copyrighted the term, but he sure didn't invent the concept. You're going to have to go after movies, tv, billboards, and everything else if you're serious about thinking Neopets is so wrong for doing it. It makes no sense to attack one company and no others; in fact it makes it appear you have a vendetta solely against the one company.

I would like to say that nobody has ever been forced to eat McDonald's food (well I hope not, that would be torturous!), and anyone who thinks a daily diet of several cups of sugar syrup, a few slices of cheese, and greasy meat won't make their jeans tight probably needs a caregiver to help them through the day. Being accused of and being guilty of something are two entirely different things. McD's doesn't offer supersized items, so perhaps your information is old? Or perhaps Neopets should get rid of any of their donuts, pizza, milkshakes, cookies or other fattening items you could unknowingly blow up your pet with before they've even left their Neohome and have a chance to get to McDonalds?

Don't they have to up the payout of sponsor games because most of us find them so boring that we hardly ever play them? *giggle*

Anyhow, I'm more worried about what the reporters miss when interviewing the people who play neopets. So far I have not seen one article where it appeared the reporter talked to someone who had ever touched neopets.com for more than three minutes >.>

So, those are my opinions, not facts, and I have backed nothing up and responded to more than I wish I had

Of course they'll work hard at selling a product. Neopets is a company, why else would they be in business if not to make money?

One question -

Why do you still play?

Every time you come on to PPT it is to complain about the evils of Neopets. But you still play.

Every response before mine have been articulate, I cannot always be so, but my point is valid. Why play?

You said it yourself - you are not a parent - I am. I can tell you Neopets has never had any effect on my kids - quite the opposite. My children grew bored with it. I still play. You always make the assumption that parents are blind, deaf and dumb. We know what "goes on" in Neopets, and quite frankly do not find anything wrong with it.

It has been said time and again - Neopets is NOT a babysitting service. It totally is up to the parents to monitor their children and explain to children any concepts that may be different in the Neopian world.

Everything you have panned as wrong - you still play - sponser games.




Check out the Neo greetings - Neo has tried to remain "non-religious" but has considered other cultures, you can see many greetings for other cultural celebrations.

I cannot find it now, but I know Cinco de Mayo was brought up in the news last year.

All in all your post has me flummoxed - I just don't see the point in it. You complain about every aspect of the game and company but still play.

You willingly follow like a lamb to all the sponsor games even though you know you are being bribed. You admit to getting wealthy (in game play) off of a game/company site that you have moral issues with. So how can you make judgements on anyone else, including Neo?

I for one do not play more than 1 round of a sponsor game. I play the game to get it on my highscore list and I never play it again.


Your overall tone towards Neo is that the game involves - secrecy, bribrary, commercialism, christian overtones that only a "select few" know about. You make Neo sound sordid and a hot bed of corruption.

If in your opinion it is that bad - then why play?

Retentive argument;
Advent; Run up to a pagan festival that the Jewish celebrated that involved a big booze up, lots of food and gifts.

Roman history 101 really.

I didn't want to get into this debate since seeing it, but one point has been bugging me: it has been implied that Cinco de Mayo is a religious holiday. It is not! It is understandible that this fact has been overlooked. According to a special on the event, many people in Mexico don't know what the day is really about. The day celebrates the victory over an invading French army that cemented Mexico as an independent state (saying that it already was free). If you don't want to celebrate Mexico's independence, my grandfather was born on that day and wouldn't mind a few extra good thoughts about him If I have misinterpreted what I have just commented on, I apologize and remove this argument.

PS: I fully back Daze's argument. Bows to the wise dragon.
PPS: I now remove myself from this debate and will not argue my statements anymore.

(As a Dao, I don't mind Chinese New Year as a religous day, but more in a traditional-good-luck-in-bad-luck-out sort of way. I don't think Lao-tse would mind that. I apologize if my view disagrees from other Daos out there.)

Edit: Thanks to the Unicorn \/ for the clarification My history knowledge is too vast to keep everything straight. Thanks again

Cinco de Mayo a religious day? Heheh, that would be nice, we'd have a whole week of vacations xD (As if we needed any more ¬¬) On some may 5th was the "Batalla de Puebla" (Puebla's battle) in which the mexican people rejected the french people that came over (or something like that, I'm not that good at history) Mexico was already independized by then (Sept 16 1810).
Cinco de Mayo is a no-working day, and a great let's-get-drunk celebration in general ._.;

Darn these sponsor games. They're totally sucking me into their world of corporate advertising and consumerism. No way am I playing those anymore. I shall completely remove myself of such influences from the evil that is neopets. I will retreat to this outside world that you speak of which will of course be horrified by the acts that neopets has taken.

*goes to watch TV to watch commercials of Coca-Cola, various automobiles, alcohol beverages, that certain deoderant that sells itself through implications of sex, auto insurance, etc. instead*

*goes to other great sites on the internet that contain pop-ups windows galore, banners ads that sing and try to have one-sided conversations with you, flash pop-ups that you can never seem to block, ads take you to an unavoidable detour page that contain flash ads that take up whole screen and hide the tiny skip button in the corner of the page (sorry PPT)*

I would totally rather have ads that are in-your-face and totally ruin the web browsing experience than ads that you can actually CHOOSE to look at. Gosh, the very idea makes me tremble in horror!

I pay for premium neopets, I get no ads.

I pay for cable tv, I get ads.

Heh, I think one of them is a better deal


Is your name Kramer by any chance?
Yeah, I watch Seinfeld. It's funny!