Clearing up a few common misconceptions.

[Morningstar]

Go Morningstar! You said everything I was trying to say -- and then some -- a lot better than I could.

I think ultimately the problem with the "suck it up" mentality is that it amounts to saying -- "So what if the glitches are making the game less fun? Suck it up and keep playing!" That's daft. As other people have said(although usually while trying to make a different point) Neopets is just a game. It's not a job, a responsibility, or an obligation.

And if a game isn't starting to seem fun anymore, the response isn't to "suck it up" and play anyway, as would be for work or school. Why should you play a game if it's not much fun? Having fun is the whole point, after all. So people lose interest and eventually stop playing, instead.

Or, in the case of the people who started the DoA, they try to take steps to fix the problems that are making the game less fun for them.

Of the two -- losing users or user action -- I think stuff like the DoA is better for Neoepts in the long run. Our time is the commodity that Neoepts sells to its sponsors. Without it, they have nothing to sell.

As far as children being hurt go: of course you can't protect your children from being hurt. But why expose them to opportunities to be hurt gratuiously? Life will throw enough problems at them on its own without going looking for more.

bgryph, I can only say that reading your posts is what inspired me to write all of this in the first place.

And, to all of you who are will not be boycotting tomorrow, yet you are complaining about Neopets or offering advice on how it could be a better site: just remember that Neopets won't hear any of it unless you put your words into motion. If you don't feel comfortable boycotting Neopets, maybe you could write a letter to Neopets instead. After all, that was the point of Dana's article--to take some type of action. Instead of sitting on our duffs and waiting for another glitch to come along.

[raudf]

I recently started an account for my girls. I thought over this for a long while and had many reservations. I'm still not sure it's the right decision, but they love Neopets and wanted their own account. They love their neopets. They make up games and pretend they are in Neopia playing with their neopets even when they are offline. It's another world to them. If this was suddenly taken away from them, I know it would be horrible.

I'd like to see you tell a six year old that she will never be able to play with her neopet again because there was a "glitch in the system". How heart-wrenching. Or even worse yet, tell her you have no idea why her acount is gone or that the people that ran the site accused her of doing something horrible enough to feel they had to close the account.

It just should not happen. No ifs, ands, or buts. On the occasion that it might happy (in a decent world), there should be a clear reason why and explicit instructions on what to do if you disagree with the ruling. Then support staff should reply within a reasonable amount of time telling you what to do/who to contact further or that you can not reopen the account.

The current state of things makes Neopia a scary place for anyone who watches over children who use the internet.

Oh, well said! This is now a site that caters to kids and they get attached to those pointless pictures that aren't even customizable beyond paintbrushes. I know, because I pay attention to my 2 year old as he watches me play and he goes "Bunny!" when he sees my cybunny.
I refuse to let him have an account now, because he barely knows how to use my computer as anything more than a pounding board.. and the way the site's going, I'm not sure it will be around in 4 years, because it has now become a children's fad and those are pretty bad about dying out quickly. *crosses fingers* I hope I'm wrong though, but they are making us long-term players very upset...

To be honest, I think most of us agree over and over again that it's not really the sponsors that's the problem, but the article did make many of us think and that's honestly a good thing, because it made us realize that the only way to make the people, who make the decisions for the site, listen to us is to boycott them and their sponsors, who when informed of WHY they are being boycotted will carry our message to Neopets in a far more certain way. It's nothing against the Sponsors themselves, nor the fact that they support the site and keep it technically free for us. This is what I feel DoA is about.

Yeah, it appears that Neopets decision makers are paying more attention to sponsors than to the players. How else can we feel? They are obviously not as passionate about the site as we are, and you know why? Because they probably haven't even played the game or suffered the stuff we have, because, believe me, if they had to go through the system we have to, they'd change the system pretty quickly.

[elsakoo]

i think that neopoints is eventually going to go out of business. The strategy the 'suits' are using is to milk it for all its worth... Then ditch it as it IS just another fad, just like pokemon, etc... the same strategy is used, ive seen it before(ignore the customer, sell deteriorating quality product for max profit before bailing). I dont really have any hope for neopets- The way it looks, neopets is starting to go downhill(or may soon hit its apex THEN go down), its BANNING their own customers(what kind of business plan is that, when every customer is treated like a criminal?) site downtime and glitches make people frustrated. They're Ddossing themselves(like with stuff like that neomail avatar, tactics to get more pageviews, thats just screwed up), and despite the new players theyve got from Mcdonalds, i estimate that TheNeopetsTeam will become TheOutOfAJobTeam in a couple of years(three max). I also dont think that its going to get any better. The current level of noise coming fron unhappy customers couldnt possibly get any higher, and if we cant get their attention now, we wont ever get it.

Shroomy if you ever read this, dont take it as a barb against you, its just my observations based on the current situation and past examples.

[Mystique]

i secretly wished that one of these actions the movers carry out would work. glitches aside, it's the freeze bots that annoy me the most and is preventing me from fully enjoying the site. there's a reason why i am not playing flash games actively anymore and going for trophies. i know some other restockers are so paranoid of been accused of autobuying that they actually hide their main account and restock with one side account, then transferring the stuff restocked to the main account for storage, via a different ip addy. i have been living with all these nonsense for years while loving the site but i think players shouldn't have to take precautions like that. i should be safe to send that hi-score and earn that 1000np w/o worrying that the score would be sent twice and neopets think i tried to scam an additional 1000np when i have donated item more than 1000np in value to the money tree!

edit: it's time for TNT to put their common sense where their bots are.

[hiddenneggs]

You can't protect kids. I can understand that if you knew there was a murderer outside your door, you wouldn't let him go out to play, but this isn't like that. It's a game, and that worst that can happen is that they'll be be frozen. But they'll learn. What doesn't kill you makes your stronger.

(snip)

At some point they're going to experience pain. They're going to be made fun of, they'll be dumped, lots of other things (like losing a family member) are going to cause them pain.

There are a couple cliches that really torque me off. One of them is, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

Sometimes it makes you stronger. Sometimes it weakens you so that the next thing that comes along has a better chance of killing you.

I was physically and emotionally abused as a child -- not as severely as some, more than some others, but it isn't a contest. It's stuff that shouldn't happen. It didn't make me a stronger, happier person, it left me me more vulnerable, more prone to feel attacked & to not respond well to such perceived attacks, both real and imagined. It left me with such lousy self-esteem that a counselor I went to was convinced that I must have been sexually abused (I wasn't), because she'd never seen someone with such a poor self-image who hadn't been.

And the damage done earliest can have the most profound effects -- a child brought up happily and with love (and that is definitely not meaning without some disappointments; my daughter doesn't get everything she wants by a long shot, but she doesn't get beaten either) can be stronger, more whole, and thus more able to deal with the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Early, avoidable pain can make the later, inevitable pains of life more hard to take.

I can't save my daughter from all pain, but I can certainly steer her away from potential sources. Since it was she who got my wife and me playing, for better or worse she's a Neopian; my steering in this case consists largely of making sure she knows enough to avoid problems (to the best of my, adult, comprehension of TNT's sometimes conflicting statements). It also takes the form of trying to make Neopets a better place for her to be. I report scammers and foul-minded perverts as I spot them, even though she's not yet on the NeoBoards.

And this leads me to another cliche that arouses my ire, one that (though not presented in those words) has been a theme in unquoted portions of this and other posts lately. "America (for which read here 'Neopets' ) -- love it or leave it."

That should really be "America (Neopets) -- love it, and work to make it better."

That's what people seeking improvements are trying to do.

[Jasujo]

Excellent and perfectly said hiddenneggs. That's my point exactly. Neopets should be something fun for our children to play. There should be at least one site on the net where they can get on the computer and we won't have to be over their shoulder watching for trouble. Neopets used to be fun and I only wish my girls could have played it then. They absolutely love it now and have no idea about the problems in the background. I'd like to keep it that way. I know I won't be able to protect them forever, but if I can keep their fun fun for as long as they are young-hearted enough to enjoy it, I will do what I can. There are enough problems with sibling rivalry, kids at school, etc., why can't they have a place where it's just them in a magical world where they don't have to worry about anything else? I wish I had something like that when I was little.

[coming2atvnearu]

Here's my thing.

PPT is not a overly extra-ordinary bunch of Neopets users (but you're extraordinary to me ). It is simply a more condensed group of your average users. Not just PPT is complaining about the recurring problems.

I understand your frustration as an individual, but do you not think that if the vast majority of users is complaining that there might be something that needs to be addressed. If everyone thinks there's something wrong, perhaps those criticizing the complainers should look at why there's such an outcry in the first place.

This is why, in a foolhardy, idealistic, hopeful way I'm participating in the Day of Action. Despite the reality of the situation, I hope that someone in HQ notices something is different. I also hope that they notice that the new McDonalds Large fries are the exact same size as the old supersizes, that no one cares about Britney Speares, and that the trickle down economy is more worthless than 1/4 of a burnt IKEA mattress. But mostly I hope they notice something is different.

I realize there is only so much you can do as a single worker, however, perhaps on your way past the corner offices you might drop a few hints to the suits. And the people wearing them.

The above post is sent with much love, respect, and punctuation. Excessively so.

[sailor_melody]

I was physically and emotionally abused as a child -- not as severely as some, more than some others, but it isn't a contest. It's stuff that shouldn't happen. It didn't make me a stronger, happier person, it left me me more vulnerable, more prone to feel attacked & to not respond well to such perceived attacks, both real and imagined. It left me with such lousy self-esteem that a counselor I went to was convinced that I must have been sexually abused (I wasn't), because she'd never seen someone with such a poor self-image who hadn't been.

That's sad, really, it is. But that's no excuse or proof that it isn't true. My father was an alcoholic. He was some 15 years older than my mom, and he married her when she was 15. One of my earliest memories is hiding under a bed with my sister, who was only a few years older than me, and listening to him scream at my mom. My mom was a strong woman then, and is even stronger for it now. She was a teenager, she was immature. And she made it out, even if it was with quite a few scratches.

After sacrificing herself and staying with him for ten years just so I would know my real father and not question her decisions later, she finally divorced him when I was a little bit older. How many four year olds are nearly kidnapped by their own fathers? How many people have seen their father pointing a gun at their mother because she left the house without warning him? How many four year olds had to stand their relatives telling them that their mother is a cheap slut and things like that?

I'm not just some stupid little girl saying 'suck it up'. I've had to suck up worse things, and to this day, I've never really complained. Some people are simply stronger than others (though I don't exactly mean you, hiddenneggs, because my 'abuse' was mostly emotional) and it just smurf me off to see a bunch of people who have never even lived though anything important, smurf about a game. Too much info, I know, but really!

And, to all of you who are will not be boycotting tomorrow, yet you are complaining about Neopets or offering advice on how it could be a better site: just remember that Neopets won't hear any of it unless you put your words into motion. If you don't feel comfortable boycotting Neopets, maybe you could write a letter to Neopets instead. After all, that was the point of Dana's article--to take some type of action. Instead of sitting on our duffs and waiting for another glitch to come along.

I am taking action. I'm sending positive, encouraging e-mails to the sponsors and TNT, and I'm going to refresh pages until my finger goes numb, as I stated before.

And if a game isn't starting to seem fun anymore, the response isn't to "suck it up" and play anyway, as would be for work or school. Why should you play a game if it's not much fun? Having fun is the whole point, after all. So people lose interest and eventually stop playing, instead

Well, if it's becoming a chore, why play it? For every one of you 'uber-old' players that leave, they'll be ten newbies taking your place and grabbing your restocks. I don't really agree with the 'suck it up' mentality, I a gree with the 'Well, then don't play'.

This whole thing just reminds me of the little boy who takes his ball home. But in this case, everyone has a spare ball.

[Jasujo]

I'm not just some stupid little girl saying 'suck it up'. I've had to suck up worse things, and to this day, I've never really complained. Some people are simply stronger than others (though I don't exactly mean you, hiddenneggs, because my 'abuse' was mostly emotional) and it just smurf me off to see a bunch of people who have never even lived though anything important, smurf about a game. Too much info, I know, but really!

How the heck do you know what everyone else has been through? Please don't think you are the only one who has had tough times. Try being kicked out of your home while pregnant. Try being in an abusive relationship and getting beaten badly, so bad you have to call the cops. Where every muscle in your body hurts, but you stay because you have no where to go and you have to protect your children. Try then being told that your children would be taken away after you call the cops to protect yourself and them and have to fight through your arse and deal with all kinds of crap to keep them. Then try being kicked out of your home again, this time being 22 and with 2 very young children and no money, no job, no place to live. Then finally finding a place and taking care of two children alone while working a full-time job with overtime to be able to just pay the bills. This is all after a very abusive (mostly emotional, but some physical as well) childhood. Try being so sick for 6 months that you are worried you will never be well again and everytime some around you gets sick or you get a sore throat, you are afraid that it will all start again. Add to that your husband's grandmother has heart problems, just had her pacemaker removed because she didn't like it and has a DNR order, your own grandmother (your last grandparent) is getting old and you are getting worried, and your dad has Hodgekins (sp) disease and is getting worse all the time. Also, you barely have enough family income to feed everyone, let alone pay the bills, your sister is getting married in a couple months and has all sorts of responsibilities for you to do, and your in-laws keep asking to borrow the kids two at a time when they live a couple states away, when you hesitate to answer, they remind you that they own the house you live in.

Honey, I'm sure there are many people here who have their own stories. For you to make such an obtuse statement like that is really self-centered. I've been through a lot and if Neopets was gone, it'd be gone. Life would definately go on. I've actually been in the situation where because of very serious life situations, I've had to take a Neopets break. Yeah, I missed it, but I had more important things to worry about. When life settled down, I came back and began playing again. Yes, it is only a game. It used to be a very good one, but has since gone downhill. If you can make something better, why not at least try?

For everyone else, I'm very sorry to have rambled on like that. It just really gets to me when someone says people haven't been through something when they have no idea who they are even talking to. I'm sure others here have their own stories and such and I don't like hearing people's lives belittled because someone doesn't even know who they are.

[sailor_melody]

I'm sorry, did I at any point target you? Did I say you, Jasujo, have never lived through anything? No, I don't think so. A lot of people on these boards aren't even 13, and quite a lot of them have never lived through anything. Sure, my mother and I were never beaten, but you think we had somewhere to go? We lived in an apartment in L.A. for a year. Do you think my mom could do anything when my dad took us while we were visiting him and tried to kidnap us? When he threatened to kill my grandparents if she didn't go back to him? Try having an alcoholic husband at 17, being pregnant, and not even being able to go to your family for help because you have 7 brothers and sisters who need your parents more than you do. And having to stand your husband's family, who make you do their laundry and basically be their slave, and throw in your face that you're living off their 'good will'. Being 7 years old and not being able to have things other kids have, and always being told there's no money for anything. And having a sister who's bipolar and prone to suicidal thoughts. Try dealing with that at 8 years old, not even realizing what your sister means exactly by all the things she's saying. I'll admit, I wasn't hit as hard as she was by the whole thing.

Sure, we live in a nice house now, three new cars, upper-middle class and everything, but my mom (and stepdad) broke their backs to provide for us. We all pitched in, my sister and I took care of the whole house (including my little sisters) so both my parents could work full time. At 10 I was much more responsible than the average 17 year old. Then try getting a christmas card from your father when you're 15 (after not hearing from him for a little less than 10 years), and having to listen to your mom cry, even though you'd never heard her cry before, because he's starting up again. Living with a last name that you despise and your stepdad can't adopt you because it might set your real dad off and he might do what he promised to do when my parents first married. We can't even tell my grandma where we live, because she might let it slip to a neighbor and word will get out.

It's ridiculous. I'm not attacking anyone personally; I don't feel like letting everyone in on my life story. The only thing I meant by that statement is that there is more to life than neopets We all have a story, I suppose, I have friends who have been through so much more than I have. But that just reinforces my point. Whatever the worst thing you've gone through is, losing a couple of million np to a glitch doesn't even compare.

But I stand behind what I said. There are a lot of people who haven't been through anything as bad. And I don't mean PPT, I mean neopets in general. Most neopets players are too young, they've barely een begun to live.

Honey, I'm sure there are many people here who have their own stories. For you to make such an obtuse statement like that is really self-centered.

Child, being condescending doesn't do anything other than tick people off, and it's really not a nice thing to do. I don't see anything self-centered about it. I'm not telling anyone to feel bad for me. It actually makes me uncomfortable. It is an obtuse statement, but it's also true. It's like saying September 11 hurt a lot of people, but that not that many (across the country, not New York) lost actual friends or family there. Out of the hundreds of people I've discussed the subject with, only one has actually lost a very close friend. Some 4 thousand people died, but there's like 7 million in New York alone.

Once again, I didn't mean to insult anyone. But the point of forums is to express your opinions and get a reaction out of people, and it's not always going to be a good one. I just don't see the need to protect children that much. I do have a younger sister, 2 years old, and I love her as if she was my daughter. They will learn, one way or another. And I think it's better that they lose virtual money, than come home crying because some kid at school traded them their little rubber ball for a new PS2 game and said something like 'no trade backs'.

[Jasujo]

You still said

it just smurf me off to see a bunch of people who have never even lived though anything important, smurf about a game

You did not say exactly who you were speaking to. You were speaking of the whole group who were complaining about neopets, of which I was a part of. Now because I spoke up, you statement suddenly does not include me? You do not know any of these people and have no right to make person statements about them. Just because someone does not toss out their life story does not mean they haven't gone through anything and just because they post here does not make everyone 13. A lot of people who have posted in this thread, I know for a fact are indeed over 13.

There is much more that I have been through, but I feel no need to write anymore. There are things that don't need to be dredged up for the sake of this.

I was not being condescending. That is just how you read the statement. You sound like you are 13 or at least a young teenager. Where I come from, when a young person speaks of something horrible that happened to them you sympathize or comfort. A lot of people use the word "honey". I know it's not just a local thing. If it offended you, I'm sorry, but you do not make yourself out to sound any older than the age you suppose the people you are criticizing are.

The point is, why make a child go through something they shouldn't have to? Do you want your future children to go through the childhood you did or do you want them to have a better one? Yes, everyone is going to have to go through rough times and learn how to deal. If you saw your child trading a PS2 game for a rubber bouncy ball, wouldn't you try to stop them? If someone doesn't have to go through something, why let them? The site could be better. It was better. We are just asking to get back to the state of relationships between users and the people who run the site. What you are saying is like saying why make healthier cars? Yeah, the ones we have now emit fumes that are deteriorating the ozone layer, but we are all going to die anyways. A little more sunburn just makes you tougher.

[Morningstar]

I just don't see the need to protect children that much. I do have a younger sister, 2 years old, and I love her as if she was my daughter. They will learn, one way or another. And I think it's better that they lose virtual money, than come home crying because some kid at school traded them their little rubber ball for a new PS2 game and said something like 'no trade backs'.

sailor melody, it is quite obvious that you are not an adult nor a parent. Perhaps you will feel differently when you have a kid of your own. Many of us on these boards are parents--many of us, myself included, have lived through horrible, unspeakable situations. I could write a book--but I won't.

But, I would never, ever want my kid to go through any of the pain that I went through as a child. It doesn't make you tougher--it makes you bitter.

And, I am not pointing any fingers, mind you, but sometimes, people who have gone through bad times are very jealous of those who are fortunate enough to not have bad times.

All we really want is a glitch-free site. Or if it can't be glitch-free, at least a site that deals responsibly with the glitches that it creates. And, I honestly don't think that is too much to ask for.

[Ambrosia]

-claps- Yay! Now we can all leave our emotional baggage at the door. I've had an angry step-dad pointing a loaded gun at me before but never in a million years could I find a way to bring it up in a way that it compares to the Neo-situation. I really don't know what to say...O_o;

[Cyanna]

Ok I think it's time to close this now that both sides have laid their cards down. No need to bring our own personal lives into an arguement over a game. It would only lead to personal hurt.

Thank you, shroomy, for your insider's view. It's good to see you around again. And thank you to everyone who tried to keep this an educated debate.