Talk:ImproveNeo

Hi Jacob,--Macbeth 15:37, 16 Apr 2006 (CDT)--Macbeth 15:37, 16 Apr 2006 (CDT)

I am the lead devleoper of ImproveNeo. If you have any questions regarding the validity of my claims, visit our forum. (I won't link to it. Google it.)

If you register, I am willing to PM you my email and we can discuss things further there. --unsigned by 69.124.116.112 on 21:11, 15 Apr 2006 --

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"ImproveNeo, the greasemonkey script, is a script that, among other things, deletes ads, recommends stocks, and facilitates easier look-up of shop wiz prices. It also makes browsing the site easier in general."

Using an outside script to influence your playing of the Neopets site is against the Neopets.com T&C. In particular, inflating stock prices by directing groups of users into buying specific tickers is breaking a particularly golden rule in the Neopets.com T&C.

Whether or not your facility is 'valid' or not is neither here nor there. It is completely against the Neopets.com T&C as much as autobuyers and programmes interfering with the Flash games. In the new Neopets.com T&C, such breaches can cause a $5,000 (USD) fine to be issued.

--Macbeth 17:58, 15 Apr 2006 (CDT)

I was thinking the same thing myself. I can see the value of having this in the NeoDex, in that someone tried to use coding to undermine Neopets coding. Your program seems to be grey area, and i will have to see what will come of it in the next few weeks, and what the official word is from Neopets is on this. :(

i do have to say though...it's quite the accomplishment to make something like this.--Jacob 18:59, 15 Apr 2006 (CDT)

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"Using an outside script to influence your playing of the Neopets site is against the Neopets.com T&C. In particular, inflating stock prices by directing groups of users into buying specific tickers is breaking a particularly golden rule in the Neopets.com T&C. "

While true, this is highly irrelevant. To be more specific, the script tells you ALL stocks at 15. It doesn't attempt to influence the group by recommending one stock. Even if it did, stock prices do not correlate with people buying them.

"Whether or not your facility is 'valid' or not is neither here nor there. It is completely against the Neopets.com T&C as much as autobuyers and programmes interfering with the Flash games. In the new Neopets.com T&C, such breaches can cause a $5,000 (USD) fine to be issued. "

It is also against the T&C to copy/paste. While I do not doubt ImproveNeo goes against the T&C, why can't it be listed here?

"I was thinking the same thing myself. I can see the value of having this in the NeoDex, in that someone tried to use coding to undermine Neopets coding. Your program seems to be grey area, and i will have to see what will come of it in the next few weeks, and what the official word is from Neopets is on this. :("

The "Coding" doesn't attempt to "undermine" anything. It is not cheating for you. If anything, it is building on top of the Neopets code. As far as the official word, please don't email the TNT. If you don't want to put it here, fine, but that may get us into alot of trouble.

BTW, if you are wondering, the script is basically un-detectable by the TNT. Littlemac 23:48, 15 Apr 2006 (CDT)

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You say what you are doing is legit, but at the same time ask us not to mention it to Neopets...okay. Little odd, seeing as i'm sure Neopets would be looking at this article. :o Either case, you will get your article on the NeoDex. It's newsworthy what you are doing. Will write it up, with the knowledge that this is still new, and it's fate is still up in the air.--Jacob 11:52, 16 Apr 2006 (CDT)

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Let me clarify. (I apologise if I sound annoyed, but you've really no idea how may times I've explained this.)

Does this project go against Neopets "Rules"? Yes. I've got little doubt about that.

However, IMO there is a very large difference between rules, and what is morally right. Yes, ImproveNeo probably breaks one or two rules. It does not infringe on the intent of those rules. Do you understand? ImproveNeo does not in ANY way cheat for you, automate tasks for you, or in anyway gives you an un-fair advantage over other players. So, while it may go against the rules, it is not a project that is morally wrong.

Hence why I requested you not to contact Neopets. Hope that makes sense.

Littlemac 13:59, 16 Apr 2006 (CDT)

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The PinkPT NeoDex project is perfectly within the T&C of Neopets.com. Neopets.com allows non-profit fansites, and allows images and characters from the Neopets.com site to be used, provided that the disclaimer of the site reads:

"Copyright 2000-2006 Neopets, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Used With Permission"

This project is not against the Neopets T&C. It doesn't so much as brush up against the rules. You, in advertising your script, are not only inviting someone to inform TNT (being as this is a public website), you may also tarnish the respectability of PinkPT.

Using a script to find stocks of a certain price is against the rules, as it is using a machine to play neopets.com for you. Similarly, it will cause people to buy specific stocks as it recomends stocks fulfilling certain propeties over those not fulfilling them, and whether or not number of purchases has an effect on stock price, this has been emphasised many times by TNT that it is against the rules. Having a code that "builds on" neopets.com violates the T&C directly also. From the official neopets.com T&C under Miscellaneous:

You acknowledge and agree that you are not permitted under any circumstances or for any reason to cheat or utilize third-party games or code in order to win at, or gain Neopoints or Items from any Neopets game. You agree not to design, disseminate or use any third party programs designed to change the game play on the site including, but without limitations, programs such as autobuyers, flash game cheats, autofreshers, and snipers.

I emphasise, you are not allowed to use third party programmes designed to change the gameplay of the site. Which is exactly what your programme proposes.

--Macbeth 15:37, 16 Apr 2006 (CDT)