Six Confirmed Bus and Tube Explosions in Central London

[Asthaloth]

to repeat what i said to some guy at some point (... )

"if the government wishes to monitor my every movement, they can damn well come and get me!"

*will be fighting this with every psychotic fibre of my being*

[Morningstar]

What Setekh said

What also makes some people twitchy is that these cards will store biometric and other personally identifiable information on a microchip in the card - and it is possible that these microchips will be accessible to computers without even having to swipe the cards through a reader (a lot like some door-entry systems work nowadays - you wave your card near a scanner, or even just wear it round your neck, to unlock doors). The theory is that this system rolled out on a national scale and connected to a large database could be used by Government agencies to track what you do, where you go, when you go there (and, if the ID card included some kind of 'wallet' functionality, what you buy) - all without your knowledge. Also this could be a target for identity thieves much like a credit card can be 'cloned' at a rigged ATM nowadays.

The worry is that this system could increase government agencies' control over the individual. Who needs Telescreens everywhere, being monitored 24 hours a day, searching for any indiscretion, when the cards and computers could do it all for you? The obvious counter to these concerns is that "If you are doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear" - which is hunky-dory as long as you trust government agencies implicitly. After all they never make mistakes... do they?

(disclaimer: most of my knowledge of the proposed scheme and its flaws comes from The Register which is notoriously left-wing )

Oh my, this doesn't sound like Big Brother, but Big Brother's Bigger and Badder Brother. The deluxe version of 1984. They honestly don't think people would go along with this, do they?

And, Igg, I'm not offended in the least. I just wanted to point out that America may have a plan on paper and a plan that allows all of the bigwigs to go into the bunker when the bombs hit--but there is no plan about what to do with the average citizen. Or if there is, I never got a copy of it.

The most I ever got was some babble on TV after 9/11 about using duct tape to tape up the gaps in my windows in the event of biological warfare. By the time I actually found the duct tape, it would be too late, eh?

I will never forget what one comedian said. Here in the U.S., we have the Emergency Broadcasting System on our TV's. Every so often, you here a loud beep, get a grey screen and an announcement saying "This is a test of the Emergency Broadcasting System. It is only a test. In the event of a real emergency, tune into channel 3 for instructions." I have seen this test for at least 30 years on my TV set. This comedian said that we had practiced this for years and years, so how come on 9/11, none of us got any type of a warning from the Emergency Broadcast System? Isn't that what all of the tests were for?

Just to give you a sense of what we are dealing with here in the U.S.

[Igg]

Wow, biometric ID cards are rrreally going to stop terrorism.

Er, how??

Say someone's going to plant a bomb. And they have an ID card. So does everyone else on the train...and er...in the country....

[on_diet_cat]

Come to think of it, I am so glad that our new flats got our very own bomb shelter right inside the house. At first we were not too happy about that huge "store room" everybody get if you buy a new house, but now I am just glad.

My mom flat do not have a shelter, I am now wondering where she will run if something happen.

[Stijn]

Stijn, the faith is being exercised as a weapon when terrorists commit these acts. Next to someones family, many people would say the best way to lead a man is by his faith. That is exactly what they're trying to do here. People have taken advantage of peoples beliefs for thousands of years. Pharaohs in Ancient Egypt claimed to be part God, doing this caused their people loyalty to go through the roof. This was because not only did the king have the people's nationalism, but their faith as well. Frankly, some of these terrorists probably recognize what they're doing and are simply using the faith as a way to lead people.

These terrorists cannot be called Islamic because what they've done is condemned in the Qu'ran. it's frowned upon the same way killing is frowned upon in most societies.

I'm not trying to grill you or insult you, Stijn, it's simply what's thrown at all of us everyday. Sad to say that media, society and the like tend to condition us to think in a way that promotes stereotypes instead of acceptance. I don't think ignorance should be an excuse though, so hopefully reading this thread will have given you a clear idea of just what these terrorists are doing.

You're the first one here that replied to me with a post that actually explains things, and not just calling what I said nonsense. Thanks. ^__^
So they're abusing religion, to give themselves power? Shows that no religion is better than religion.

1. It's been estimated by some that the cards, once implemented, will cost us upwards of £200, this opposed to about £45 for a current passport.

I'd be happy to scrounge up £200 if it meant that my life could possible become a lot safer.

2. It's feared that the creation of a single national database containing biometric and other personal details on every resident in the UK could lead us closer to a 'Big Brother'-style controlled state, and also be a target for hackers.

Any (government) database is a potential target for hackers. But why should I care if hackers got inforation that I bought an adult magazine, a PS2 and an apple yesterday? Why would I care if they got my fingerprints? I suppose it would suck because they could use it to commit crimes, forge fake cards with someone else's information. But that would be found out, because generally, people know when they're being hacked.

Say someone's going to plant a bomb. And they have an ID card. So does everyone else on the train...and er...in the country....

Exactly! They might find DNA, fingerprints or whatnot! And having an international database with all bio-whatsit info about everyone (that's the idea) would definately not be helpful!

[Trick]

Shows that no religion is better than religion.

Plenty of non religious people commit terrible crimes every day, nothing to do with religion and more to do with the incredibly nasty side of human nature.

As for the cards it isn't just to do with hacking, that is a concern and no, most people don't know they are being hacked. That's why identity theft is such a common thing these days. All your information could be stored on the card and then in any building anyone with the right scanner could stand on a different floor from you and find out all your personal information in an instant. Anyone could find out where you were, what you were doing at any moment in time. There would be no assured privacy, even in your own home.

Optional ID cards in my opinion is ok. If the ID card was non-biometric and I could choose to buy it then I may consider it. But if I have no choice other than to pay for one, and no choice over how much or little info is put on it then I consider it a complete invasion of my privacy (not to mention the fact I could not afford it), and as others have said a direct step to a more big brother type world - and anyone who has read 1984 knows that is not a good move. And there is no indication that it would make anything safer at all, see Madrid for example.

sparkygoesforth and setekh explained it much better than I ever could

[sparkygoesforth]

Say someone's going to plant a bomb. And they have an ID card. So does everyone else on the train...and er...in the country....

Exactly! They might find DNA, fingerprints or whatnot! And having an international database with all bio-whatsit info about everyone (that's the idea) would definately not be helpful!

ID cards would probably not have foiled this attack.
As you've no doubt heard in the news today/yesterday, the four bombers have all been identified. As I type this three of their names have been released to the public. They were all British citizens with, it appears, no previous record of any terrorist involvement. Had the ID card scheme already been introduced they could have still carried out the attack without challenge because they were not seen as a risk. They have no need to be worried about being identified after the attack of course. All the ID cards would have done is maybe identified them quicker (as it is they have been identified in less than a week by conventional means.)

There's an interesting article about possible ways of securing the public transport system here

I would be happy to pay for a card (not at £200, more like £45) if it could be used as a replacement for a passport or driving licence for example. But, as Trick pointed out, identity theft is a growing problem these days. It seems insane to suggest putting all your personally-identifiable information in one place and then carrying all that information around everywhere you go on an easily-lost plastic card - you're asking for trouble on a large scale. Still it's early days yet and the details are yet to be sorted out, hopefully the scheme will end up 'watered-down' enough to avoid these security issues.

Shows that no religion is better than religion.

Blaming this on religion (any religion) is a total red herring. These people are not religious. They have taken a religion and warped its teachings to fit their own deranged ideology in an attempt to justify what they do. That's not following a religion, that's corrupting a religion.

[Asthaloth]

They are a corruption on civilisation.
on Religion.
On society.

As much as i may dislike Society, Religion, and yes, even Civilisation.
i can atleast see some of their Qaulitys.
they are not among them.


edit: and now i hear the Government intend to monitor emails.
well i have one thing to say.
Death will be a small price to pay for vindication.
Thankyou Konrad Kurze

[Angus Young]

proving my point on mankind

words fail me.
oh well, i have his email atleast.

Oh, luckily the article states it, so everyone can use it.

And oh God, will I use it.

His office is in DC, thats a DC area code:P

[Morningstar]

Shows that no religion is better than religion.

Blaming this on religion (any religion) is a total red herring. These people are not religious. They have taken a religion and warped its teachings to fit their own deranged ideology in an attempt to justify what they do. That's not following a religion, that's corrupting a religion.

I wholeheartedly agree with sparkygoesforth. Most of you weren't even born when the Jonestown Massacre occurred in 1978. Reverend Jim Jones was supposedly a religious leader and got many, many people to follow his teachings and leave the U.S. to move to his "People's Temple" in Guyana. He was affiliated with the Disciples of Christ , a religion that has been around in the U.S. since the 1800's, of which both President Johnson and President Reagan were members. He then convinced over 900 people who followed his teachings to kill themselves en masse. Those who refused got executed. Including gunning down a Congressman and his aides when they came to investigate the so-called "religion." It wasn't a religion. It was a horrible, awful person corrupting a religion to gain infamy. Just like what happened in London and at the WTC.

[o_0]

Three new ones. o.o

[Robert]

Three new ones. o.o

They think it is Copy Cats. There are also reports of gun fire.

[Matterbug]

Yeah, three tubes evacuated, and a bus...

LONDON - Three London Underground stations were evacuated at midday Thursday following reports of incidents, British Transport Police said. The Fire Brigade was investigating a report of smoke at one station.

Police sources told Sky TV that suggestions pointed to some kinds of devices exploding in the stations or on trains, two weeks to the day after bomb attacks killed more than 50 people in the British capital.

An explosion was also reported on a bus in Hackney. Scotland Yard said that some sort of device could have been detonated on the bus, but could not confirm what the incident was, Sky News said.

Police said Warren Street, Shepherds Bush and Oval stations had been evacuated and that the rest of the Underground system was closing down. Emergency services personnel were called to the stations, police said.

London Underground said there were no immediate reports of casualties.

"People were panicking. But very fortunately the train was only 15 seconds from the station," witness Ivan McCracken told Sky news.

Smell of smoke
McCracken said another passenger had claimed he had seen a rucksack explode. The bombs which killed 56 people on three Underground trains and a bus in London on July 7 were carried in rucksacks, police said.

McCracken said he smelled smoke and that people were panicking and coming into his carriage.

Services on the Victoria and Northern lines were suspended following reports of a number of incidents, London Underground said.

"I was in the carriage and we smelt smoke - it was like something was burning," said Losiane Mohellavi, 35, who was evacuated at Warren Street.

"Everyone was panicked and people were screaming. We had to pull the alarm. I am still shaking," Mohellavi said.

From- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8655541/

I'm hoping it will say at no casualties.

[Matt]

There are 3 suspsected tube station blasts, and one on a bus. At Warren Street, Oval and Shepherd's Bush. The Bus attack is at Hackney Square.

There's not any problems, really. They just closed three tube stations and all the lines that go through there, which is 3.

The police say "We are not treating this as a major incident."

There is 1 casualty, no deaths. (At Warren Street)

It's suspected that there are 4 'detonators' - just a loud bang, though smoke is seen from Warren Street. On the bus, the windows were blown out...

The police say they do not believe this is linked to 2 weeks ago.

[Josephine]

Arrrrrgh. Copycats... These people really need to get a life.