My School
Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:31 pm
I just want to rant a little about the unfairness of my school, I am not sure if this is in other schools but, whatever.
Okay, so my school has all the classes in different groups like high set, low set, second highest set, all of that. Now, for the people in the low set in the three main subjects, they are very lucky. They are nicknamed the 'Mars Bar' group because, well, any time they answer a question (right or wrong) then they get a chocolate bar. Also, instead of doing work, once a week, they will go on a trip like ice skating or snowboarding or canoeing (sp?). There have been no trips for any other groups apart from these sets. I just don't really see why. The people who need to study MORE are studying LESS? Does anyone know why it is like this?
Okay, so my school has all the classes in different groups like high set, low set, second highest set, all of that. Now, for the people in the low set in the three main subjects, they are very lucky. They are nicknamed the 'Mars Bar' group because, well, any time they answer a question (right or wrong) then they get a chocolate bar. Also, instead of doing work, once a week, they will go on a trip like ice skating or snowboarding or canoeing (sp?). There have been no trips for any other groups apart from these sets. I just don't really see why. The people who need to study MORE are studying LESS? Does anyone know why it is like this?
Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:39 pm
It sounds just as ridiculous as the new teaching method that o_0 mentioned in a different topic. Encouraging the underachievers to be underachievers? Absolutely stupidity if you ask me.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:41 pm
They are nicknamed the 'Mars Bar' group because, well, any time they answer a question (right or wrong) then they get a chocolate bar.
Don't they get fat?
Of course not! They're in the low set for a reason, they don't answer questions right!
Nah, seriously now.
In what grade are you? Because honestly, I agree, that is unfair. They shouldn't organise trips for these kids, or reward them if they answer a question.
The knowledge you acquire in your years at school, the friends you make, the life experience you get, those are your rewards. A bright future. Those things are what you are supposed to look out for when you are at school. Those are the things that should motivate you.
Not chocolate bars. I wouldn't go to school, develop a superior intellect, only because I get mars bars when I answer a question correctly. If you only learn, becausr you get chocolate, you are very sad indeed. Even though I could understand. I mean, chocolate!
Look at that! I'd study all night long just to get a few of those!
You guys should go on trips as well, you guys should get Mars bars as well. (Better not answer too many questions.
) Things should be fair. If those low set kiddos aren't motivated enough to learn for school, and all that keeps them going is a few chocolate bars, they don't even belong at a school.
Love,
Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:28 pm
I don't think it is unfair, no.
We have a similar thing here. Lower set people also get free study guides.
No, it's not. This is a common misconception.
They're not being encouraged to underachieve. In teaching, you have to understand that not everybody is going to be as clever as you might like, nor are they going to achieve particularly good marks. Not everybody is cut out for academia, and that should be fine.
There is no point making a lower set study and study. They aren't suddenly going to become bright. Rewarding them for answering questions may seem juvenile, but if it gets them to achieve anything then it's good.
People in the lower sets aren't lucky. They aren't traditionally clever and it will count against them so much in life.
Just because they aren't clever, does that mean they should have a rough time in school? Should they be forced to spend hours struggling through work they can't do? And by the way, there is a difference between children who have not been taught well, and children who just lack ability. There is a difference between lazy underachievers and people who just aren't very apt. For some people, a D is the best they can do.
And they need a different kind of teaching. If you're an A student then conventional teaching is fine for you, clearly it's been working all your life. Giving less able students rewards encourages them to work, and taking them on trips does the same. It also encourages them to actually bother turning up to school in the first place when they could be inclined to give up with it all. They KNOW they're less able than others and making them do things they clearly can't do is a complete waste of time but also badly affects their attitude to bothering to come to school in the first place.
You're not going to stop going to school just because an incentive such as a chocolate bar or a trip isn't there. A lot of these children may well do.
It does upset me, sometimes, the lack of understanding that is shown. There's more to learning than what your set one class does. As long as they're learning SOMETHING in their school time, it's not wasted.
And I doubt you'll think it's that unfair when you're getting A's and they get D's. Even though a D is the best they can get. And they should be pleased with that.
I don't even WANT chocolate or to go on trips all the time. Have you done anything in particular to deserve it? Eesh, some kids in lower sets are exceeding expectations just by turning up in the first place! That's hardly underachieveing.
People in bottom sends don't respond to the same kind of teaching that top sets do. I know, it's been tried. My dad is also a teacher and we've discussed this a lot.
And I doubt they get a chocolate bar for every question answered. Your school'd be pretty low on cash by now
Oh, and our top sets also get to do things the lower sets don't.
*shrugs* Maybe it's just me, but I don't find it unfair that people at a disadvantage to me get treated better in other areas. Maybe it's just not as important to me as it should be.
If you all got rewards, they'd be completely devalued.
We have a similar thing here. Lower set people also get free study guides.
DiscordantNote wrote:It sounds just as ridiculous as the new teaching method that o_0 mentioned in a different topic. Encouraging the underachievers to be underachievers? Absolutely stupidity if you ask me.
No, it's not. This is a common misconception.
They're not being encouraged to underachieve. In teaching, you have to understand that not everybody is going to be as clever as you might like, nor are they going to achieve particularly good marks. Not everybody is cut out for academia, and that should be fine.
There is no point making a lower set study and study. They aren't suddenly going to become bright. Rewarding them for answering questions may seem juvenile, but if it gets them to achieve anything then it's good.
People in the lower sets aren't lucky. They aren't traditionally clever and it will count against them so much in life.
Just because they aren't clever, does that mean they should have a rough time in school? Should they be forced to spend hours struggling through work they can't do? And by the way, there is a difference between children who have not been taught well, and children who just lack ability. There is a difference between lazy underachievers and people who just aren't very apt. For some people, a D is the best they can do.
And they need a different kind of teaching. If you're an A student then conventional teaching is fine for you, clearly it's been working all your life. Giving less able students rewards encourages them to work, and taking them on trips does the same. It also encourages them to actually bother turning up to school in the first place when they could be inclined to give up with it all. They KNOW they're less able than others and making them do things they clearly can't do is a complete waste of time but also badly affects their attitude to bothering to come to school in the first place.
You're not going to stop going to school just because an incentive such as a chocolate bar or a trip isn't there. A lot of these children may well do.
It does upset me, sometimes, the lack of understanding that is shown. There's more to learning than what your set one class does. As long as they're learning SOMETHING in their school time, it's not wasted.
And I doubt you'll think it's that unfair when you're getting A's and they get D's. Even though a D is the best they can get. And they should be pleased with that.
I don't even WANT chocolate or to go on trips all the time. Have you done anything in particular to deserve it? Eesh, some kids in lower sets are exceeding expectations just by turning up in the first place! That's hardly underachieveing.
People in bottom sends don't respond to the same kind of teaching that top sets do. I know, it's been tried. My dad is also a teacher and we've discussed this a lot.
And I doubt they get a chocolate bar for every question answered. Your school'd be pretty low on cash by now
Oh, and our top sets also get to do things the lower sets don't.
*shrugs* Maybe it's just me, but I don't find it unfair that people at a disadvantage to me get treated better in other areas. Maybe it's just not as important to me as it should be.
If you all got rewards, they'd be completely devalued.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:43 pm
I think the same as Igg. I've seen plenty of people in the top sets waste their brains and mess about yet still get decent grades whereas I've seen some people in the bottom work so hard and try their hardest and only come out with E's and D's.
I think they should be rewarded for doing well. It's all effort anyway. If you're effortlessly clever than I don't see the point in being rewarded for not having to try. I've never worked at school and always got good grades yet I never expected to be rewarded for doing well, as I could do it naturally. My sister on the other hand, has to work really hard and she gets rewarded for the effort she puts into her studies. In the end, it's effort, not prowess that should be rewarded.
I think they should be rewarded for doing well. It's all effort anyway. If you're effortlessly clever than I don't see the point in being rewarded for not having to try. I've never worked at school and always got good grades yet I never expected to be rewarded for doing well, as I could do it naturally. My sister on the other hand, has to work really hard and she gets rewarded for the effort she puts into her studies. In the end, it's effort, not prowess that should be rewarded.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:48 pm
Thanks Twinkly. I owe you a coke
I'd also like to add that I have friends who were predicted Es and Fs in Science module exams, and came out with C's and D's. They're not great results, but they exceeded expectations, and for that I think they deserve some sort of reward. And they've had the kind of learning that's been mentioned, with rewards and trips, and they came out successful.
To nick something Cassi said, it's better they be treated differently and gain something, than be treated the same and not.
I'd also like to add that I have friends who were predicted Es and Fs in Science module exams, and came out with C's and D's. They're not great results, but they exceeded expectations, and for that I think they deserve some sort of reward. And they've had the kind of learning that's been mentioned, with rewards and trips, and they came out successful.
To nick something Cassi said, it's better they be treated differently and gain something, than be treated the same and not.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:08 pm
I still don't get why you guys think it's fair to reward them for achieving something, and not rewarding others, who might do less work, but still achieve the same. It'll keep everyone happy.
Like I said, you need start working on your own initiative. A reward from time to time keeps a kid happy. But rewarding them for everything they do?
If turning up to school alone is a major achievement for these "lower set" kids. Then they really have no future. They'll just expect more rewards for everything they do right. That's what you teach them at school, that doing something good automatically gives you a reward.
These kids don't see that putting effort into school also rewards you in the long run.
Like I said, you need start working on your own initiative. A reward from time to time keeps a kid happy. But rewarding them for everything they do?
If turning up to school alone is a major achievement for these "lower set" kids. Then they really have no future. They'll just expect more rewards for everything they do right. That's what you teach them at school, that doing something good automatically gives you a reward.
These kids don't see that putting effort into school also rewards you in the long run.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:08 pm
If the sole reason you come to school is for a chocolate bar or a trip, you really shouldn't be there at all.
I understand that they give rewards for accomplishing things.
However, those rewards should be earned, not handed out for nothing.
I understand that they give rewards for accomplishing things.
However, those rewards should be earned, not handed out for nothing.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:13 pm
You sometimes get that in my school but i'm hardly bothered by it.
I don't see the need to reward people who do well anyway and I doubt the offer of chocolate will make you work alot harder, but maybe that's just me.
I don't see the need to reward people who do well anyway and I doubt the offer of chocolate will make you work alot harder, but maybe that's just me.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:15 pm
We have three different "levels" of classes, but they are really certain groups or anything. There are "local" or non-honors classes for those who either don't do well or don't want to take a harder course, then we have honors or advanced courses for students who do above average in the local classes and want to try something a bit harder, and then we have Advanced Placement and College level classes for those who do well in honors classes but want to try something even more advanced. They don't really form "groups" or anything. Some people take College level English but take local level math. 
Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:05 pm
Stijn wrote:If turning up to school alone is a major achievement for these "lower set" kids. Then they really have no future. They'll just expect more rewards for everything they do right. That's what you teach them at school, that doing something good automatically gives you a reward.
In theory, perhaps, in practice, no.
Stijn wrote:These kids don't see that putting effort into school also rewards you in the long run.
Of course they do, and being rewarded encourages them to put effort in. It is a fact, however sad, that no matter how much effort they put in, they will NEVER be high achievers.
I think it's also worth mentioning that bottom sets don't have a lot of people in. And most, if not all, of the people in them have learning difficulties. it just requires a completely different approach where school is concerned.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:11 pm
Do you know these people in the lowset group in person?
Because honestly, they sound like my brother. I don't know how to say it without being rude... Not normal? As in... Well, you know. Because it would make sence, the low set group is the underlearners, right? So, they would be people with learning problems. And honestly, if they are (this is total assumptions, I know), then go for it. Whatever makes them feel like they are doing a good job.
Because honestly, they sound like my brother. I don't know how to say it without being rude... Not normal? As in... Well, you know. Because it would make sence, the low set group is the underlearners, right? So, they would be people with learning problems. And honestly, if they are (this is total assumptions, I know), then go for it. Whatever makes them feel like they are doing a good job.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:23 pm
Yep, Vera. They are often people with learning difficulties, I know what you mean.
I know quite a few of them in my school in person, from primary school.
I know quite a few of them in my school in person, from primary school.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:33 pm
Well I was in the bottom classes at school. I'm not very clever and I don't hide the fact. I think it's good that they get rewarded for trying hard. I tried really hard and didn't get anything good like chocolate. I did get two grade C's though. All the rest were D's E's and an F. F for Maths. I can't do maths and I'm not even going to try.
Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:36 pm
That's very...insane.
At my school [which I am to leave in three days and never return] the special ed program had those kids take tests in a different room. And I think their homework is easier. And they have a period for studying and stuff, which most us don't have. But they don't get candy. The candy/ trip thing is idiotic. ><
At my school [which I am to leave in three days and never return] the special ed program had those kids take tests in a different room. And I think their homework is easier. And they have a period for studying and stuff, which most us don't have. But they don't get candy. The candy/ trip thing is idiotic. ><