Return of Dr Sloth [Split 5]

[Unitylejean]

Jus finished the first 3 mod puzzle... It's not that they're difficult, they're just insanely tediuos and time-consuming. But since my exam period is over and I'm basicly sitting at home and being bored, I don't mind fiddling with them.

Funny thing is, at first I thought the sequence of mods DID matter. So I checked the guide, ended with 36 different solutions, thought about how many combinations I'll have to try (considering there are roughly 3-4 mods with the same symbol in the same place) and went "OMG, there's like no way in hell I'm doing this"

When I discovered the sequence doesnn't matter it suddenly seemed like a piece of cake

[fructy]

Will the message that we need to finish the step be in one of the message with o's in the codes of them or could it be any random message?

[butterflygirl]

I'm thinking it'll be in one with the O's because all mine that didn't were maintenance reports (which they probably have made it so you have to solve those first anyways...)

[fructy]

I'm thinking it'll be in one with the O's because all mine that didn't were maintenance reports (which they probably have made it so you have to solve those first anyways...)

Ok, thanks!

[Pickles]

Will the message that we need to finish the step be in one of the message with o's in the codes of them or could it be any random message?

It will definitely be one of the ones with the O's, as it's a Military Comm regarding shuttles. Once you've done that one, you're done.

[theonlysaneone]

TOSO's Mini Guide to Intelligent Brute Force

Original, less user-friendly post: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=35666&p=775128#p775128

Charts:
http://www.neopets.com/~_Blue___Berry_ (for the 5-variable, 2-mod puzzles)
http://www.neopets.com/~charmander2058 (for the 6-variable, 3-mod puzzles)
viewtopic.php?p=775226#p775226 (for the 7-variable, 3-mod puzzles; incomplete)

1. Choose a symbol from the "Results" row. It doesn't matter which one, but if the symbol shows up more than once, you need to choose only one of them; you'll see why in a minute. For instance, if you have PPCVZP, pick the first P and ignore the rest for now.

2. Go to the petpage chart that matches your puzzle. In the ones I've posted so far, you should look at your key (the only one you can't modify) for the symbol directly above the one you've chosen. After doing that, go to that section of the chart and write every combination of modifiers that can be added to it to produce your symbol.

3. Go to your modifiers and write down the number of every modifier that has each symbol in the desired position.

4. This step isn't necessary, but really helps. For each combination you have, make two (for 2-mods) or three (for 3-mods) columns under it and write the matching modifier numbers under each symbol. This will help you stay organized when trying to brute force.

At this point, you can brute force (try every possible combination) of the numbers you've put down, based on the combinations you've found. Remember that order is irrelevant, and be careful not to miss a single one or else you could have to start over.

If that sounds incredibly tedious, you're right. There's a more surgical way to do it, but it's pretty complicated and is still time consuming. Read on...

5. Repeat steps 1-4 for another symbol. Once you have your possible modifier combinations written out, compare them to the ones from another symbol and write down the ones that are common to both. For instance, if 5-8-18 works for your first symbol and works for your second, write it down. However, if it doesn't work for one of your symbols, cross it off.

If you do this correctly, you are GUARANTEED to get a set of combinations that includes the answer. I suspect the ILLEGAL program that was written earlier did something like this, maybe by comparing the possible lists of combinations for three or four symbols.

Anyway, if you have questions and Lost isn't on, feel free to PM me and I'll help you out.

[amarise]

*Edit* Nevermind, too slow.

Last edited by amarise on Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[theonlysaneone]

Charts:
[[Need chart for 7-variable puzzles]]

There's a partial 7-variable chart that Pickles has compiled, listed on page 7 of this post.

She already PM'ed me I wish there was one out there complete with images though. I wonder if the person who made the other two has one?

[Pickles]

I wish there was one out there complete with images though. I wonder if the person who made the other two has one?

No clue, but I wish there was a complete one as well.
If I get much more bored, I might start making a complete one, even though I'm past done with the part. I'm kinda surprised no one has PMed me yet asking for any specific ones.

[amarise]

She already PM'ed me I wish there was one out there complete with images though. I wonder if the person who made the other two has one?

Well, according to the charmander page, s/he is going to be making the 7-var chart after school today, so hopefully we'll get the full chart soon.

[Pickles]

Well, according to the charmander page, s/he is going to be making the 7-var chart after school today, so hopefully we'll get the full chart soon.

Well, if s/he doesn't, I'll probably get started on actually finishing this one. If there's not one up by tomorrow, I'll make it my priority for my downtime. I'll still do any specifics that people request prior to then, of course. (Yes, we've determined I'm a bit insane. )

[theonlysaneone]

Pickles, if it helps, the combinations are determined by two-variable additions. Think about it this way: if C+V = Z, C+P = 8 and Z+8 = O, then C+V+C+P = O. It shouldn't take long to determine what each combination of 2 equals as there are only 28 of them. One of the variables should be a "zero" value that doesn't change anything. You'll have to include it in your combinations, but it will help you find the combinations of 2.

[Pickles]

Pickles, if it helps, the combinations are determined by two-variable additions. Think about it this way: if C+V = Z, C+P = 8 and Z+8 = O, then C+V+C+P = O. It shouldn't take long to determine what each combination of 2 equals as there are only 28 of them. One of the variables should be a "zero" value that doesn't change anything. You'll have to include it in your combinations, but it will help you find the combinations of 2.

Heh, I've actually got a system working from the base 7 math thing that takes about 5 minutes per combo at most. I do it in numbers first, then convert to the symbols using find/replace. Somehow working directly with the numbers makes it a lot easier for me. Thanks, though!

[theonlysaneone]

Wait a second: it really CAN be reduced to Base 7 numbers? How does that work if there are 8 symbols?

[butterflygirl]

I've only seen 7 symbols total... So base 7 would work.

I've been working on a chart for going from C to any other symbol, but a complete chart would be really nice.