Lost Desert Plot Discussion #37 (Split- Summary in 1st Post)

[skyfire]

I have the suspicion that if nobody did anything it would still be uncovered to the current extent.

I never made, nor implied, the suggestion to wait. All I said was that chances are gathering the sand had no real relationship to uncovering the Repository.

That doesn't mean collecting the sand doesn't have some meaning besides a delay tactic.

I know we are only speculating, and I know you didn't say not to dig, I am just commenting on the idea that a lot of people now think it is a timed event.

My point was either we are infact digging out the repository and it is getting "hits" ( which is my opinion) or it is a timed event.

If it was a timed event, then no-one would have to dig.

I don't think the actual piles of sand are worth anything, but how many times you have visited the Repository will be a factor.

I mean wouldn't we feel ripped off, if we visited the Repository, clicked a button and that was it, nothing to show what we have done. The plot needs visuals otherwise we would just be clicking on buttons and be bored out of our minds.

In context, why would digging be a "delay tactic"? It is just part of the plot. We found the Temple and had to work through it. We found the Repository and now we are working through that.

Why would TNT take all the time and effort to make these puzzles if there was no point in them?

These are my opinions and not a direct attack on anyone elses opinions or theories.

Sorry to put all this down here. I started puting everything where it fit, but I'm new at this, and most of my comments just got mixed in when I previewed. I tried to put phrases indicating where I am in relation to the lines above. Please bear with. :-\

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I understand your point.

And my point was you can still get points for how many times you collect sand (I honestly think people buying up sand are going after red herrings. I think the scoring is on how many times you actually go and collect, not how many piles are in your inventory. But that's just a guess.). Just changing how the repository is cleared doesn't have to change that.

Yes, as a timed event no one is /required/ to dig to get to the next set of puzzles. OTOH, we don't know how this is being scored, so it is reasonable to speculate that the digging could at least contribute and, therefore, conclude that it's probably a good idea to grab as many handsful as one can, just in case.

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I agree that the plot needs visuals and all that, but I think there's still room for these delays and such.

To me this has multiple functions, all, some, or none of which are possible:

1) People like to take weekends off. This lets the staff do that while
2) Allowing folks just starting to have a chance to catch up with some of the others if they can and
3) Keep the interest of those who have gotten through what has come before.

Of course many of us /are/ getting bored with where things are, some moreso than others.

As far as feeling ripped off...

Right now if someone finishes the Tombs part that we have and shows up here sees the repository as we do. I know I started toting friday afternoon. Let's say tomorrow it's dug out, for argument sake. If all things remain the same, someone finishing the tombs and heading over to the repository is going to be able to waltz right in without having had to carry the sand out. It sounds to me that his situation is the same as your "ripped off" scenario. I don't know.

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Why would it be a delay tactic if it follows the plot?

It wouldn't be a very good delay tactic if it had no relationship to the rest of the plot, I think. I mean, if they sent us to collect seashells from Maraqua, it really wouldn't make sense. This has us doing /something/ that at least has some bearing on where we've come from and where we're going.

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Why would TNT take all the time and effort to make these puzzles if there was no point in them? (that was nice and short, so I kept it. )

There's not really a puzzle to carrying piles of sand, IMHO. The next puzzle/set of puzzles begins, I expect, once we get into the Repository, which I expect to be by Tuesday (I give a benefit of the doubt where people and weekends are concerned ).


And I understand that you're only presenting your perspective. If my response sounded like I was defending against an attack, I'm sorry. All I was trying to do was clarify my point; it's frustrating when it seems like I'm not being understood (understandable, I think).

I'm not trying to shoot down anyone else's perception, or steer them to do anything else, or, really anything. I'm just kinda bored and what people had been posting made me think and I figured I'd share my own ideas.

Maybe I'm wrong on some of it. Maybe I'm reading into the timing of the event (that would only shoot down the "delay tactic" idea, tho, really). I don't know. I just know that I look at the worl

I'll look at this a different way, though, to elaborate. You have two sets of programming possibilities (to simplify):

A) there is a set amount of sand around the Repository and the sand is taken away at a rate equal to what the group of neopets grabbing handsful take away. At certain amounts, more gets revealed.

B) there are a group of consecutive events with a certain amount of time between each (and that time doesn't have to be equal, of course). At certain predesignated times, more gets revealed.

If I were to change between A and B and do NOTHING ELSE... I don't change the recording of how much each neopet carries away, I don't change the possible prizes dug up, I don't change the chance of random events. Would the part of the event look the same on the surface?

And the answer I come up with is "of course." All I'm really saying is it's possible to have it remain the same without really changing the flow of things. All I'm saying is that it's within the realm of reasonable possibilities that this part of the Event serves in part to tide us over 'til the beginning of the week... 'til we really get into the next thing.

'Cause when I compare to draging sand about to mapping out the 87 distinct sets of doors (sealed and unsealed) and then hunting down the parchments and figuring out what that phrase in front of the Temple meant... there's really a big difference between them.

"Life is made of Moments of Transition and Moments of Revelation." This, as best I can tell, is a Moment of Transition.

Okay, folks. Wake up. I'm done for now.

Edit:

have you seen this, it is what people on the neopets discussion bored say they have OLDPD (Obsessive Lost Desert Plot Disorder) the symptoms are here ...I think we all, at least I do, fit many of those points...

I have so many of those.

I probably add a whole slew more to the list. Probably POLDPD (PRONOUNCED Obsessive Lost Desert Plot Disorder).

"Why won't the scrolls stop SPINNING! Get them out! Get them OUT!!!! "

JasEdit: Do not double post. If you were the last to post and you want to add more, please use the "edit" button in the top right of each of your posts. Thank you.

[Quicksilver]

have you seen this, it is what people on the neopets discussion bored say they have OLDPD (Obsessive Lost Desert Plot Disorder) the symptoms are here ...I think we all, at least I do, fit many of those points...

Help! Neodigit7 has been spying on me! (Great. Where is the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar when I need them).

Muhuahahahahaha!!!, everytime you hear maniacal laughter in the distance, that is me...

...lol, what is with the star trek reference?

[Skynetmain]

have you seen this, it is what people on the neopets discussion bored say they have OLDPD (Obsessive Lost Desert Plot Disorder) the symptoms are here ...I think we all, at least I do, fit many of those points...

Help! Neodigit7 has been spying on me! (Great. Where is the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar when I need them).

Muhuahahahahaha!!!, everytime you hear maniacal laughter in the distance, that is me...

...lol, what is with the star trek reference?

The reference goes with my sig and the fact that is what I watched for the first half of this plot. I doubt you do all the evil laughter I hear. I do have Calc and Physics professors. And now we have to drop it before we get into trouble.

[Daze]

skyfire re your post. I agree and understand all you wrote.

I can even see the "timed" side of the argument.

I just keep coming back to the fact that it would be unfair to all of those who carried away more sand than others.

So in a compromise, I would suggest that it could be a timed event, but it does matter how many piles of sand you carried away.

In an Editorial - (cut down for size)
Basically rather than just having a war to decide who gets what, there will be many puzzles, many fights and some other challenges for you to do in order to earn points.


I am just hoping that the points are accumalative. So that each pile of sand we take is going towards our score.

And I agree, it wont help you to buy sand, as it would undermine the point of digging it up.

EDIT: If all the puzzles were able to be solved in a day it doesn't give a lot of time for all the different time zones to complete the task.

So rather than just saying it is a "delay tactic", I am sure TNT made the puzzles (yes, I know it doesn't take much logic to dig sand) long to give everyone a fair chance.

Last edited by Daze on Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

[ooboo245]

If it is a timed event then its not fair, as some people are able to get in every hour others like myself every couple of hours. There is no way I will have as much sand as the ones who can go in every hour. Plus I do have a life, a husband, 2 kids, a full time job, a house to run, and God knows I suffer enough from lack of sleep from the real world, there's no way I'm about to set my alarm clock every 2 hours for a handful of sand.

As for the points I wish TNT would give us a shield or something on our user lookup to determine how we are doing if the puzzles are part of our points.

[skyfire]

I just keep coming back to the fact that it would be unfair to all of those who carried away more sand than others.

Oh! Hmm. Maybe we're understanding where each other is coming from now. o.O

Let me see if I get this.

If this part of the Event is "meaningless" (for want of a better term) aside from potential points for how much sand one collects, then if, at the end, there were no points, the collecting has greater unfairness the more handsful you collected?

Is that your argument? [sorry if that sounds like a -edited- comment, it's supposed to be a genuine question]

I think if that's the case there's some merit to your argument (although, as an aside, I'll say it has no bearing to which scenario is the actual one).

I know it seems unfair. Maybe it is to some extent. IMHO, even if we are actively revealing the repository, *IF* there's no other benefit than to clear it a little earlier (IOW, let's say that, as above, there actually is no scoring to the sand thing), it's unfair to those who carry away more sand because more latecomers will come in and waltz right in unperturbed... albeit maybe less so than the scenario above.

I think the best scenario (albeit not simplest, but closer to the way the first part of the LDP worked), in that case, would be for each person to have to clear their "own" pyramid... random number they have to clear, rate between loads based on stats, etc. That way latecomers would still have to do some lugging just like latecomers still have to map their tombs to get through effectively.

I don't know. It seems each has their benefits and detriments... I'm not sure how they would balance out in the end.

JasEdit: Do not try to bypass the word filter. If a word is filtered, it's obviously not allowed. Thank you.

[everconfused]

Hmm, this whole timed event thing is making my head spin. The only way I thought of this (the digging) being timed is the amount of time you have to wait before you can go back for more sand.

Unfortunately, my pet can only go back every 3 hours or so, weekends in general are actually busier for me than weekdays (so I'm not at the computer much), and I'm dealing with a very sick kitty who needs to be syringe fed every 2 to 3 hours, medicated and watched. That's certainly more important than checking the time to turn the computer on to go dig sand! Bottom line? I've only dug 10 handfuls of sand.

What there is speculation about is that if people want to participate in the actual war (if there is one), then you have to complete the other parts of the plot - that's kind of your "entrance fee" to battle. Which I can see people thinking, but I don't think TNT would be that unfair. Not everyone has the time or inclination for an involved plot.

The only thing that would irritate me is if, in fact, the number of sands you have somehow influences your rank or position (please no more ranks!) if there's a war, then those of us with pets with low agility are going to get the wrong end of the stick.

Last edited by everconfused on Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

[greenbugsy]

As for the points I wish TNT would give us a shield or something on our user lookup to determine how we are doing if the puzzles are part of our points.

That's true I hadn't thought of that: a progress sheild. In the past, the wars, etc have those sheilds that let you know how you're doing or at least a place where it will tell you (Maraquan war).

And as for the piles of sand, I think it's based of agility for a good reason....if you have more points, you can get more piles of sand b/c you're wait time is shorter. If your agility is slower, you have a longer wait time and aren't able to get as much sand. It seems as though they are rewarding those who have trained their pets and therefore, those people have a better chance of getting more handfuls of sand.

It was just like the Maraquan War where certain people were grouped in different categories based on their hit points. Some couldn't fight as much as others and some were able to fight more and therefore racked up more war points.

I might not agree w/ Neopets way of choosing to do it this way, but this is what it looks like they might be doing

[felipo]

Hey all, i just registered to ask this question...what do you all do to bide your time between temple lockouts? Aside from playing games, i find myself checkin the temple every five minutes, which im sure you can imagine to be pretty miserable. haha im only on my third tablet, i cant even imagine what its like come your eleventh and twelth tablet.

[everconfused]

And as for the piles of sand, I think it's based of agility for a good reason....if you have more points, you can get more piles of sand b/c you're wait time is shorter. If your agility is slower, you have a longer wait time and aren't able to get as much sand. It seems as though they are rewarding those who have trained their pets and therefore, those people have a better chance of getting more handfuls of sand.

Here's the thing with that - alot of us DO train our pets. It seems (and I could be wrong, but from what I've seen) that most pets with high agility got that stat from quests, the shrine and the lab ray ... in other words, mostly random. I don't know that many people who have actively trained agility. I know when I started training and asked for advice, everyone told me to NOT bother with agility, that it was useless. With the newer tunics and robes, agility does matter - but only for high agility (and intelligence). Now that my battle pet is on 4 codestone training and his agility is 12, that's alot! of np to train on something that's long been a non-issue in the bd.

So if this, in fact, a way to "reward" people who train, it's kind of the wrong way to reward for something that isn't actively trained.

[ooboo245]

It seems as though they are rewarding those who have trained their pets and therefore, those people have a better chance of getting more handfuls of sand.

Here again that really isn't fair for the fact that new people join every day there is no way a person who just started could or would have enough time to train their pet as say me with 25 months, and my 25 months is nothing compared to those who have been with neopets since the beginning. I think neopets needs to either group everyone, or make it to where everyone has the same shot at completing the plot.
I know there is no way I will come in the top winners, but hopefully its not like the Mystery Island plot.

[Daze]

If this part of the Event is "meaningless" (for want of a better term) aside from potential points for how much sand one collects, then if, at the end, there were no points, the collecting has greater unfairness the more handsful you collected?

Is that your argument? [sorry if that sounds like a smart-@$$ comment, it's supposed to be a genuine question]

I think if that's the case there's some merit to your argument (although, as an aside, I'll say it has no bearing to which scenario is the actual one).

Yes, that is what I am saying. And you are correct in saying that is has no bearing on which scenario is right.

I think the best scenario (albeit not simplest, but closer to the way the first part of the LDP worked), in that case, would be for each person to have to clear their "own" pyramid... random number they have to clear, rate between loads based on stats, etc. That way latecomers would still have to do some lugging just like latecomers still have to map their tombs to get through effectively.

Maybe that would have been better, but it would be the same kind of puzzle as the Temple. There could be a reason for the way we are working on it. Once again I am drawn back to the amount of sand piles you carry off.

As we don't know what is to come within the Repository it may be too early to assume latecomers will get an advantage. ( I surely hope they don't).

Thankyou for your continuing posts, I am enjoying this repartee.

[Riyoku]

I don't think the number of sand you dig up has anything to do with it. Personally, my theorie is it's just a fun lil thing for people to busy themselves with untill they're ready to release the next part of the plot. Possibly even giving us something to sell to make up for tablet-fixing costs when(?) there was one.

I don't think this way of doing it is unfair at all. It would be unfair if a person tried really hard getting through that temple only to be told they didn't dig enough(or at all) to be able to move on.

Newbies get to join in last minute? So what! We all had to go through the horrors of it all. So will they. Sure someone before them lit the way somewhat, but they still wont have it all handed to them on a silver platter. Unless suddenly temples can map themselves now? XD

I also think TNT released the digging part to get some of us to relax and not stress so much untill the next update. Lots of people seemed like they were giving up last time...

[skyfire]

And as for the piles of sand, I think it's based of agility for a good reason....if you have more points, you can get more piles of sand b/c you're wait time is shorter. If your agility is slower, you have a longer wait time and aren't able to get as much sand. It seems as though they are rewarding those who have trained their pets and therefore, those people have a better chance of getting more handfuls of sand.

Here's the thing with that - alot of us DO train our pets. It seems (and I could be wrong, but from what I've seen) that most pets with high agility got that stat from quests, the shrine and the lab ray ... in other words, mostly random. I don't know that many people who have actively trained agility. I know when I started training and asked for advice, everyone told me to NOT bother with agility, that it was useless. With the newer tunics and robes, agility does matter - but only for high agility (and intelligence). Now that my battle pet is on 4 codestone training and his agility is 12, that's alot! of np to train on something that's long been a non-issue in the bd.

So if this, in fact, a way to "reward" people who train, it's kind of the wrong way to reward for something that isn't actively trained.

Except you can chose not to do the quests (i.e. spend the NP on the items and all). You can chose not to go to the shrine. And those who actually have access to the lab ray can chose not to go to it.

Just like those who train their pets at the training facility can chose not to.

It's the decisions that are rewarded, if you think about it.

[Mongrel]

I'd say that the whole idea is that those who've put the effort into training agility will be rewarded for training it, because every single time you win in the Battledome you're reaping the benefit of training the other stats. Now agility gets a little benefit--though it still doesn't justify the amount of NP spent, it's still a good treat.