Day of action=bashing

[sailor_melody]

The Boycott probably won't work. I suggest a mass quit.
On 3rd July, millions abandon their pets and self-freeze their accounts.

It'd be cool.

It'd make me rich. A lot of the people on this site are master restockers, if they quit, I'd be able to get more items.

I've... said all I'm going to say on this, I think. I don't want to get worked up over it again and offend someone. It'd be great if neopets was a little better, but I don't agree with risking neopets sponsor deals for a few million np, especially because all it is is a bunch of pixels that are worth nothing at the end of the day.

[VirtualMetal]

Still, TNT really needs to pick it up. One thing that's REALLY bothering me is the TCG tournament. The staff is sitting around playing a CARD GAME when they could be fixing some of the glitches, or maybe answering user e-mails. And do we get anything out of this? I wouldn't mind so much if we could place bets on who would win, or if the users were involved somehow. But no! It's just an oppertunity for them to add more to the news page.

I thought you could place bets

I'm sure it isn't just them sitting arround with beers and an 8 way pipe playing games all day. Plus, they can't work all day
I remember someone once posting back to Adam on a board telling him not to go out and to work on the site. It was 8:30 his time on a Saturday night Give the guy a break... I'm sure they try their best on the site. And seeing as it's totally free I don't see why so many people whine and complain. Would you rather there be no neopets?

[bgryph]

I suspect Neopets would be a lot more motivated to fix glitches and provide better customer service if failure to do so impacted them -- in terms of risk to potential sponsor support -- then when failure to do so only impacts users.

Sure, glitches happen. But they don't have to happen like they happen on Neopets. Your bank glitched away any of your money recently, then refused to return it to you? I didn't think so.

First, you can't say "they'd be a lot more motivated to fix glitches" because, well, the FIX the glitches. It's not like there's a glitch and they're like "hmm... well, we'll get to that in a bit let's go make a deal with Disney first". They see a glitch, and the programmers fix it, thats just how it works.

On the contrary, there are a wide variety of ongoing glitches on the site. People lose items moving them on an ongoing basis -- when de-equipping them, when moving them out of their SDB, when putting them in their shops to sell them, when buying from user shops, etc. Although the recent major auction and TP glitches seem to have been fixed, people still lose items and NP when selling items here, as well.

Morevoer, the glitches that are fixed are not often well-handled while occuring. The recent big TP glitch was ongoing for hours and hours, and yet TNT didn't take the TP down or even warn users not to try to make trades until it was fixed. They just merrily let users lose their items and then made a brief mention in the news after everything was fixed. An earlier warning could have saved their players a lot of grief, but for some reason they didn't give one.

Likewise, in the big password glitch, rather than posting a general warning to users all over the site to change their password, TNT confined themselves to mentioning it on the BD chat board. If I hadn't happened to read PPT that afternoon, I never would have known it was happening. Again, a lot of users were probably hacked who wouldn't have been if they had better warning, and again, only a brief mention was made after the fact.

Heck, when the Baby Lupe plushie was released at the Limited Too, TNT bestired itself to email every single over-13 user on the site. But when all our passwords are given out, they can't be bothered?!? Presumably this is because they have a financial incentive in selling Baby Lupe plushies, but don't feel the same incentive to protect the security of their accounts.

Even when glitches are well-handeled overall, TNT can fall down on the communications aspect. Consider the Lab Map glitch. Although they have a general idea what's happening, no one at TNT knows why it happens. No blame to them, everyone with programming experience knows that tracking rare, hard-to-replicate bugs is well-nigh impossible. They even instituted a system to track who had the Lab Map so that it could be returned if it were glitched away. Again, kudos, the best thing to do in the circumstances. I think we're all pleased and grateful that it was done.

So here's a case in which TNT pretty much did everything we might possibly have wanted them to do, glitchwise. Yet until one of the programmers posted about it on Neocolours, no one really had any idea what was happening, whether it was still happening, and whether they could get their Lab Maps back if they were glitched away. Months and months after the problem was discovered and fixed to the best of TNTs ability, we were still in the dark.

Note I don't blame the programmers for this: communicating with users isn't their job. (Yay for them for answering questions on a fan site, in fact!) But I think there should be someone at Neopets who makes it their responsibility to keep users updated on what's happening on the site. I don't mean just the newest TCG expansion, the latest offerings at the Bakery, or mentioning that Chias can now be painted Watermelon, I mean the REAL stuff that's happening: glitches, scams, what's being done about them, that sort of thing.

I for one say it's not just the glitches that are getting to people, it's the perception that TNT doesn't care about the glitches. This perception may not be accurate, but TNT nevertheless often does a darned good imitation of not caring. I think better communication on TNTs part would improve the situation a lot.

And about giving back items, do you REALLY think it's that easy? Can you just think of how many e-mails they already get, how many more they'll get of people wanting money back, how many they will get from people who wnat to take advantage and say their items were lost. Then they have to go through records to make sure that the people aren't lying, and then give them their items back. Can you imagine how much time and work that would take? It would distract them from their regular job of keeping the site up, and even more glitches would happen.

I don't think it's easy at all. I suspect that many of the day-to-day site glitches aren't programming errors per se. Rather, I suspect that the system Neopets uses to move items about simply isn't very robust to interruption and tends to delete (or sometimes duplicate) items if something happens mid-transfer. So to get rid of the constant glitching, they'd need to switch to a more robust transaction system. (For example, something that checked to make sure that the H4000 helmet you're de-equipping actually made it to your inventory before deleting the record of it in your equipment.) They might instead be able to use some sort of system that tracks items over a certain value and makes sure they don't just vanish. Neither would be particularly trivial to implement. Which is why I think TNT needs a little extra motivation before they'd consder it.

Oh and be realistic: comparing a bank to Neopets that way is a little out there.

Why? It's not like banks use special "bank computers" that only banks can own, or have special "bank customer service" that is far more efficent than customer service representatives available to Neopets. They use the same equipment and probably the same servers that Neopets does, they just have a much more robust system for moving money about (and, one hopes, better records as well -- though from my dealings with my bank I'm inclined to doubt it). And they undoubtedly hire the same customer service people -- only more of them.

My point is that shuffling mass quantities of numbers about online without glitching them up in the process isn't as impossible as some people here have suggested. Nor is having customer service people on hand to answer email queries -- sometimes stupid ones -- from a large customer base. Banks do it every day. So does just about any large online business that deals in real-life financial transactions. You just have to care enough about avoiding errors to take the necessary precautions, and of course have the necessary resources. By all accounts Neopets is doing pretty well financially, so that leaves motivation. :shrug:

[sailor_melody]

They might instead be able to use some sort of system that tracks items over a certain value and makes sure they don't just vanish. Neither would be particularly trivial to implement.

Well, according to the estimated value, a codestone is worth 1,217np, while other useless items are estimated to be worth more than 100,000. See where I'm going with this? And you wouldn't be able to base it on shop wizard prices, because that would be too complicated. Assuming it's possible to have such a price list of the hundreds of thousands of neopian items, there's still inflation. What if a new faerie avatar was released the day after you loose a collection of faeries and the prices shoot up to 20k a piece? Faeries have an estimated value of about 4k, and they're only worth about 5k. Even if such a system was used, it probably wouldnt include anything worth less than 50k. You'd still be smurf, right? There's no way around it, there's always someone who's going to be unhappy.

So let's go back to this fantasy world where TNT actually has an updated list (which would take forever to update on a daily basis) of the prices of all items. Say you have a trade of 10 Grand Lightning Beams, expensive, but not in the list of valuable items neopets track (because they can't track every bottle of sand) because they're about 50k each. You lose 500k, and neopets still can't do anything about it. Neopets doesn't know that you had a total of 550k in that trade. The computer isn't going to look it up on the shop wizard and add it up.

Besides, a system like that favors the rich. When is a newbie going to have a Ferie Queen Negg or a Royal Paintbrush?

I think I made my point, and if I haven't I'll just add on to it later. It can't be done, especially not as easily as everyone seems to believe.

My point is that shuffling mass quantities of numbers about online without glitching them up in the process isn't as impossible as some people here have suggested. Nor is having customer service people on hand to answer email queries -- sometimes stupid ones -- from a large customer base. Banks do it every day.

No they don't. I've dealt with banks. Once they have your money, customer service pretty much goes out the window. I swear they tell their employees to act stupid. Insolence you can punish, but you can't do anything about ignorance or stupidity.

[raudf]

Hmmm.. I think if they did have a bit more in the way of failsafes, such as a some sort of querying system that could be text based that allows them to keep up with who has what wouldn't be as hard as say.. what they use to keep up with who has what objects anyway. *sighs* That's a confusing way of saying it, huh?

What I think I am trying to say is this, say I'm running a site (not as hypothetical, as I am running a mush), I have to keep up with objects and what not that my players have at any given time. I have a program inside the game that allows me to easily backup the whole site or even just give me a texted based listing. It's not that complex for such a small game as what I have, but it should be possible for Neopets to have something simliar. Say, backs up on a hourly basis and saves the text backup files with time/date based names. If you lost an item say yesterday at 2:30, one could simply get the two files and compare them.

Now, mind you I am not a programmer, but, it is possible to do something about item losses, and while glitches do happen, even with this system, it's just one more thing that might make players feel better about the staff on TNT.

Yeah, I've submitted the suggestion, but like everything else, Neopets doesn't seem interested in player input unless it hits their bottom line. (No, Donna and Adam don't have much say in the way Neopets is run anymore. They are just employees for Neopets now, but they are the public faces that everyone wants to see fix the problems)

[bgryph]

No they don't. I've dealt with banks. Once they have your money, customer service pretty much goes out the window. I swear they tell their employees to act stupid. Insolence you can punish, but you can't do anything about ignorance or stupidity.

If your bank regularly glitches customer's money away online and refuses to give it back, I suggest you change banks. :-P

[Johnnydontgo]

To add into this mess, I'll state my opinion, too. You're right, bgryph, the problem isn't neccisarily the glitches, it's their Public Relations issues, apparently. Take the petpet and faerie ability disappearances (since I just ranted to a TNT member in the thread above). There was no mention in the news about WHAT the problem was. there was a quick blurb that stated something to the effect of, "We had some problems, they're fixed now", which they had not been fixed. No one could find their petpets, and no one had faerei abilities. How simple would it have been to say, "We're moving data around right now, so if your petpet's go missing, don't worry! They'll be back"?

[VirtualMetal]

Oh and be realistic: comparing a bank to Neopets that way is a little out there.

Why? It's not like banks use special "bank computers" that only banks can own, or have special "bank customer service" that is far more efficent than customer service representatives available to Neopets. They use the same equipment and probably the same servers that Neopets does, they just have a much more robust system for moving money about (and, one hopes, better records as well -- though from my dealings with my bank I'm inclined to doubt it). And they undoubtedly hire the same customer service people -- only more of them.

My point is that shuffling mass quantities of numbers about online without glitching them up in the process isn't as impossible as some people here have suggested. Nor is having customer service people on hand to answer email queries -- sometimes stupid ones -- from a large customer base. Banks do it every day. So does just about any large online business that deals in real-life financial transactions. You just have to care enough about avoiding errors to take the necessary precautions, and of course have the necessary resources. By all accounts Neopets is doing pretty well financially, so that leaves motivation. :shrug:

Banks are gettting far more money and have far more on the line than neopets. So obviously they will be running a lot better and smoother than neopets. Since they have peoples lives to ruin if things go wrong.

You will not die if you lose your neopoints. I've lost many and to be honest I'm not really that botherd. I was a little miffed but it's only a game. I think comparing it to real life things like banks is a little far out.

And about the public relations. I've allways been satisfied with them. I had my account returned when it was wrongfully frozen. I've had my support emails answerd and had my petpage fixed when it was glitchy.

Sure items I've lost will never come back but I can get them back eventually. I can't complain. I don't pay to play this where as I pay for other online games I play.

I guess it's hard to realise just how many emails a day the neopets team actually do receive. And many not pretty either.

Although I had a pet removed from my account during the security glitch. I still am glad they didn't anounce it. As the glitch might have still been happening and more people would then have been affected. And like I've said before, a lot of people would use it to beg items from others in the chats.

Allways remember it is a game. Enjoy it and if you have problems just keep letting them know. Someone will help eventually if your not rude about it.

[Shoelace]

*looks through thread*
What the fudge has happened while I was ill?
I tried to look at the neoboard topic but it is now deleted, the thing on the front page everyone was talking about it gone.
All I can gather is somekind of boycott
Could someone explain what the Day of action is please?

[twinklyspangle]

Yeah, can someone please clarify exactly what is going on here?

Is this just a massive have-a-go-at-neopets thread??

[VirtualMetal]

Go to http://www.pinkpt.com and scroll down a bit. Yukios post is about "The day of action" read that.

[Shoelace]

Go to http://www.pinkpt.com and scroll down a bit. Yukios post is about "The day of action" read that.

All I see is:
-The dissapearing ski lodge in Terror Mountain x2
-6 crossword answers
-New and updated content
-Deserted Fairground scratchcards prizes
-Muffin cooking pot recipies

Has it been deleted or something?

[LoopyLauren]

Go to http://www.pinkpt.com and scroll down a bit. Yukios post is about "The day of action" read that.

All I see is:
-The dissapearing ski lodge in Terror Mountain x2
-6 crossword answers
-New and updated content
-Deserted Fairground scratchcards prizes
-Muffin cooking pot recipies

Has it been deleted or something?

Same here...and it seems something major is happening... Even Shroomy posted on it... Whats going on exactly?

EDITED: After searching on google I found a copy of it...at neoextreme.com/

Here is what I have to say.

Dana you are just an ignorant spoiled brat! ITS A GAME! Chill out! Sure it does stink when you lose stuff or np in glitches but stopping sponsering is crazy! It won't help! Do you really think that enough people are going to do this ridiculous stuff that its really going to be good? I think its childish and stupid. PERIOD. Besides, even if EVERY player did it what good would it do? It would just make the site not free anymore. Nobody is forcing you to do any of the stuff you ask. Don't do it. But requesting other people to do it too is so dumb. I'd bet by the way your acting you are a 8 yr. old girl with NO life.

Anyways, on a brighter note! I look forward to an easier half price restocking day, higher priced items I can sell that I have, and a less laggy site if these users do this! If they are seriously this immature then the site really will do better off without them... LOL!

[Mystique]

Loopylauren, i think some of what you say are totally uncalled for. the ultimate objective of this campaign is not to make TNT lose their money source, the sponsors. even though this campaign probably won't achieve anything at all, i believe Dana's objective is to make TNT review their actions and ultimately make neopets a better place for everyone. btw, i don't believe an eight yr old would do something that invite so much controversy as it takes some guts to initiate something like that. if you do not understand the objective of these players, then like many others, you are truely ignorant.

[jellyoflight]

Loopylauren, i think some of what you say are totally uncalled for. the ultimate objective of this campaign is not to make TNT lose their money source, the sponsors. even though this campaign probably won't achieve anything at all, i believe Dana's objective is to make TNT review their actions and ultimately make neopets a better place for everyone. btw, i don't believe an eight yr old would do something that invite so much controversy as it takes some guts to initiate something like that. if you do not understand the objective of these players, then like many others, you are truely ignorant.

I think that what LoopyLauren said was from neoextreme. ^^