Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:48 am
hydruxo wrote:skizzy the wonder lizard wrote:when will TNT learn? either make CLEAR, CONCISE RULES or get rid of the freaking neoboards.
or even better, both.
It's in the Terms and Conditions.promotions offering prizes of any sort (including contests, raffles, lotteries, chain letters or any kind of giveaway)
[rant]Perhaps so, but they don't put these in the Chat Rules- They should update those or replace them with the actual Terms and Conditions. I was not actually aware that such a rule existed in the full TaC, which is why the Chat Rules MUST be updated or made more specific. Besides, isn't giving someone an item technically a giveaway anyway? Aren't PPT giveaways still giveaways? If that were the case, we should be in Iceland. Guilds host giveaways, raffles, et cetera all the time; in fact, I bet if you joined one of the most popular they'd still be giving random things away without so much as a cursory glance form the Staff, and the integrity of those giveaways is questionable to say the least. So why should this be any different?
If you ask me, it's a ridiculous rule, and not being in the Chat Rules, should not prohibit someone from posting or offering them there. If you're not going to allow giveaways, why even BOTHER with the "give item" feature?
I for one think it's a ridiculous rule to keep people from giving away free items if they feel like it. And, as the chat rules say, if "no one has ever hacked into Neopets, accessed user information, accounts or usernames", then why should anything be wrong with a giveaway? That would mean the user actually wants to host it and did not have their account compromised unless it was through a major mistake of their own.
Even if I were to do it through the money tree, it would still be a giveaway- what we are looking at here are rules that are, for the most part- clear cut, but in some cases fail miserably at being specific enough, contain too many loopholes, or cover too broad a spectrum of actions.
Thus, I am warned rightfully for a violation- BUT, if I am to be warned or frozen, I can safely say that the 299 people that received jelly, as well as anyone that has ever taken or put items into the Money Tree should be warned, perhaps frozen themselves. Oh, I know! Maybe we should freeze the staff, too, because they were the ones who offered the Money Tree in the first place! Is that a good idea? I don't think I need to answer that question for you. Bah! [/rant]
Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:52 am
People have been frozen for stranger things. Actually, there's nothing fair about this system of "report and warn" because they never ask for any proof! I have my share of enemies who would report me for something I never did if they would stoop that low. Neopets never question the accusors, nor do they ask the accused to defend themselves. This is worse then that time in mideval europe where you could randomly blame someone and get them thrown in jail! At least back then you could name your enemies if you were accused so that they'd be sure it wasn't a hoax!
Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:05 am
The problem with Neo is that it is WAY too big! Even though there is prolly only about 500k of active users on each day, its still alot. There is almost no chance that TNT will get to read everything carefully. The report happy people prolly think they're helping Neopets, or think they're gonna get some special reward for making others miserable, so I think TNT should:
A) Get more mods, like, 5 mods on 24/7 per board except the less popular ones or something.
B) Get the mods to read things over more carefully, and if someone has reported over 5 times a day for bogus reasons, give THEM a warning.
C) Blow up the Neoboards. *BOOM*
A) Get more mods, like, 5 mods on 24/7 per board except the less popular ones or something.
B) Get the mods to read things over more carefully, and if someone has reported over 5 times a day for bogus reasons, give THEM a warning.
C) Blow up the Neoboards. *BOOM*
Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:34 am
Deleteing the neoboards, countrary to popular belief, will not fix the problem. When something is wrong, you don't get rid of it. Instead, you must try to fix it!
Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:46 am
i recieved a jelly
what if i get frozen
good thing
they don't know who i am
what if i get frozen
good thing
they don't know who i am
Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:52 am
Is it just me, or does it sometimes seem like neopets has a blacklist? I know of people who get iced immediately upon starting an account again or are never mailed the activation code, despite the fact that everything is in order.
Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:46 am
probably about half of the ToC is unnecessary without the neoboards...
Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:05 pm
Sorry, it happened to you, Omni. 
Who would have thought that the future was being predicted in your earlier topic:
I guess you were lucky to get the warning and not get frozen. It still is smurf.
Oh, I could write pages and pages here about how unfair their system is by freezing/warning one person but not everyone; by not having clear, concise rules; by not having enough employees to police the boards; by not listening to both sides (the reporter and the person being reported) and evaluating the actual circumstances before giving a freezing/warning---but I won't.
However, I will say this: It isn't against the rules to give away things on the Neoboards and "giving away" presents isn't the same as a "giveaway," which is a contest, like radio stations sometimes have ("Be the 10th caller and win a prize"). I explained this in my email to the staff after my daughter's account was frozen and the staff member agreed with me.
As I mentioned above, the monitors do not read the actual posts before giving the warnings/freezings. As I was told by that same staff person, the sheer number of posts versus the number of employees does not allow them to do so. So, instead, according to this staff person, they have to rely on the users to police the boards.
And, unfortunately, some users lie when reporting. They get some kind of sick power trip from doing so. It's a shame that TNT doesn't realize that.
Who would have thought that the future was being predicted in your earlier topic:
Morningstar wrote:Xerophyte wrote:skizzy the wonder lizard wrote:Xerophyte wrote:OmniIcyshelf wrote:Oh, one more thing- do you think they'll ice me just for having this much and giving it away?
Nah, they wouldn't ice you for giving away stuff.
Especially if it's "the season".
*waits for morningstar to jump in with the story of her daughter*
Meaning someone did get iced for giving stuff away? O.o;
Morningstar, here. Gee, it must be a memorable story, eh?
For those of you who don't know the story, here is the short version (ha!). My daughter gave stuff away last December on the chats. She got her account frozen after some evil nasty girl falsely reported her for scamming. The girl then bragged on the boards about it.
She got the account back after I wrote them an email about it--using all of my legal background to argue the case. The staffer's email pretty much admitted that they didn't check my daughter's posts but just took the word of the person who reported her--because of lack of manpower in the staff dept. The evil nasty girl got frozen for filing too many false reports.
I have seen giftgivers getting reported left and right on the boards lately. Some people are downright mean and jealous. And that stupid report button gives people too much power. And, some people love to have power over others. A shame.
I guess you were lucky to get the warning and not get frozen. It still is smurf.
Oh, I could write pages and pages here about how unfair their system is by freezing/warning one person but not everyone; by not having clear, concise rules; by not having enough employees to police the boards; by not listening to both sides (the reporter and the person being reported) and evaluating the actual circumstances before giving a freezing/warning---but I won't.
However, I will say this: It isn't against the rules to give away things on the Neoboards and "giving away" presents isn't the same as a "giveaway," which is a contest, like radio stations sometimes have ("Be the 10th caller and win a prize"). I explained this in my email to the staff after my daughter's account was frozen and the staff member agreed with me.
As I mentioned above, the monitors do not read the actual posts before giving the warnings/freezings. As I was told by that same staff person, the sheer number of posts versus the number of employees does not allow them to do so. So, instead, according to this staff person, they have to rely on the users to police the boards.
And, unfortunately, some users lie when reporting. They get some kind of sick power trip from doing so. It's a shame that TNT doesn't realize that.
Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:48 pm
vtothec wrote:you just answered my question whether neo staff are still working on the holidays answer is yep there was a rather nasty board on help chat i hope someone got it
In case there was any confusion, the Monitors are not the same as the regular Neopets staff. They don't work in the Neopets offices.
Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:51 pm
Hi
Omni, I saw a couple of your boards on the BD. The people there did get in the spirit of the whole jelly extravaganza, knew it was all in good fun. It's weird, the BD seems to swing from being really loose and some of the (off-topic) posts are just hysterical (one the reasons I love to lurk there - I've laughed so hard I've cried a couple of times). Then they swing in the other direction and everything's clamped down on if there's the least hint of being off-topic.
But I have to say this ... when I saw the title of your topics I was like Uh Oh, a monitor's going to see the word Giveaway and there's gonna be trouble. Any giveaway anywhere is against the rules. People are warned/frozen for it all the time - and this month they're really cracking down on them. I saw at least 3 "secret santa" boards deleted and the people frozen in one evening. That's without anyone reporting anything.
I would just lurk on boards and randomly just send a jelly or whatever to people without saying anything. I think that's the safest way to do something like this. Just try to stay below the radar.
I am sorry you got a warning for doing something that was innocent and just for fun. No, the monitors don't always read what's inside a topic, they either just look at a title or look at reports - and the fact is that people CAN and DO change whatever they're reporting sometimes to make things look worse or different than they originally are (that cheeses me off so much - people shouldn't be able to change anything that they're reporting). That said, the comment that the monitors are idiots? No, I don't think so. I think there's not enough compared to the number of members and boards, I think there's some over-zealous monitors (and the occasional "rogue" monitor who goes on a warn/freeze spree), but I also think it's unfair to paint all monitors as "idiots" or anything else.
Omni, I saw a couple of your boards on the BD. The people there did get in the spirit of the whole jelly extravaganza, knew it was all in good fun. It's weird, the BD seems to swing from being really loose and some of the (off-topic) posts are just hysterical (one the reasons I love to lurk there - I've laughed so hard I've cried a couple of times). Then they swing in the other direction and everything's clamped down on if there's the least hint of being off-topic.
But I have to say this ... when I saw the title of your topics I was like Uh Oh, a monitor's going to see the word Giveaway and there's gonna be trouble. Any giveaway anywhere is against the rules. People are warned/frozen for it all the time - and this month they're really cracking down on them. I saw at least 3 "secret santa" boards deleted and the people frozen in one evening. That's without anyone reporting anything.
I would just lurk on boards and randomly just send a jelly or whatever to people without saying anything. I think that's the safest way to do something like this. Just try to stay below the radar.
I am sorry you got a warning for doing something that was innocent and just for fun. No, the monitors don't always read what's inside a topic, they either just look at a title or look at reports - and the fact is that people CAN and DO change whatever they're reporting sometimes to make things look worse or different than they originally are (that cheeses me off so much - people shouldn't be able to change anything that they're reporting). That said, the comment that the monitors are idiots? No, I don't think so. I think there's not enough compared to the number of members and boards, I think there's some over-zealous monitors (and the occasional "rogue" monitor who goes on a warn/freeze spree), but I also think it's unfair to paint all monitors as "idiots" or anything else.
Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:17 pm
Morningstar wrote:Oh, I could write pages and pages here about how unfair their system is by freezing/warning one person but not everyone; by not having clear, concise rules; by not having enough employees to police the boards; by not listening to both sides (the reporter and the person being reported) and evaluating the actual circumstances before giving a freezing/warning---but I won't.
...Why not? I really wish you would...
And after reading Morningstars logicifulness, giving away presents really isn't against the rules, especially when there are no strings attached. At all. I think monitors are slackin and not checking inside the topic and I think they're taking others word for it... Foolish report happy people!
Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:28 pm
Tonu wrote:Morningstar wrote:Oh, I could write pages and pages here about how unfair their system is by freezing/warning one person but not everyone; by not having clear, concise rules; by not having enough employees to police the boards; by not listening to both sides (the reporter and the person being reported) and evaluating the actual circumstances before giving a freezing/warning---but I won't.
...Why not? I really wish you would...
And after reading Morningstars logicifulness, giving away presents really isn't against the rules, especially when there are no strings attached. At all. I think monitors are slackin and not checking inside the topic and I think they're taking others word for it... Foolish report happy people!
Giving presents is not against the rules, if it were there wouldn't be a "give to neofriend" option (unless of course you and another person play Neo on the same computer and you send from your main account to their main account - then there's a good chance of being frozen for "multi accounting" .... Bleh!).
It's making a topic on a board saying giveaway, ftp, secret santa, contest, prize for (whatever - finding the most MSPP, stuff like that). etc. that's against the rules.
I know guilds aren't allowed to have anything like a MOTW, MOTM, new person packs, birthday packs, not even a little member of the day (our guild used to have that - the person would just get a little plushie or something, names were picked at random ... MOTW and MOTM were "voted" on by other members). Someone got a warning for having a guild codestone exchange - that one I truly do NOT understand, that's not a giveaway, it's a trade! Donations (asking for them) in your shop, guild or even siggy is now against the rules - considered either a raffle/contest or begging - which is reportable.
I don't agree with all that, but it is a rule and unfortunately it's a rule that is being enforced more and more because of all the scammers who post something like "giveaway", "wish board", "gift war", etc. and do something like ask for people to send them something and they'd send something back - except they don't send anything back. It's a ploy to get stuff from other people.
I know for a fact that Omni's case is not like that at all. Asked for nothing, did give those jellies out. But all giveaways are painted with the same brush now.
Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:54 pm
I didn't realize your boards said "Giveaway." A true giveaway is a contest. You get the chance to win something if you do what the person/company asks. An example of a "giveaway" is when a real estate company sends you something about how you will one of the "fabulous" prizes if you attend one of their meetings (where they try to sell you timeshare condos or a piece of property). Or a radio staton giving away tickets to a concert if you are the tenth caller. This sort of thing is against the Neopets rules and is actually against the law in several states.
But, as I have said before, "giving away" things is not against the rules. Even if you use the words "give away," such as "I am giving away my pet." Otherwise, there would be no "give item to Neofriend" on the drop down line. Nor would Neo give away advent calendar items to the users during the month of December.
Unfortunately, some monitors at TNT do not realize that "give away" is not the same as "giveaway." Nor do most of the users. If you used the word "giveaway" instead of the words "I am giving away" even if it wasn't a contest and you did nothing wrong, you were opening yourself up to being reported/getting a warning/getting frozen.
Yet Neopets doesn't seem to follow its own rules. This was taken from http://www.neopets.com/happymeal/dailyprize.phtml:
"McDonald's Daily Giveaway!
From May 28th through June 24th you'll be able to find a Neopets Plushie in every McDonald's Happy Meal. During that time, you'll also be able to visit us here and get your own virtual prize - a different one every day!
It could be an item, a bag of Neopoints, or something really silly, who knows
Click the button below to get today's prize!"
What Neo ought to do that would save a lot of people grief is to put a big post on the front page of the news during the month of December saying "Please don't have giveaways, contests, secret santas, or wishboards. They are against the rules. And, please don't give things away on the Neoboards either." Honestly, would that be so hard?
But, as I have said before, "giving away" things is not against the rules. Even if you use the words "give away," such as "I am giving away my pet." Otherwise, there would be no "give item to Neofriend" on the drop down line. Nor would Neo give away advent calendar items to the users during the month of December.
Unfortunately, some monitors at TNT do not realize that "give away" is not the same as "giveaway." Nor do most of the users. If you used the word "giveaway" instead of the words "I am giving away" even if it wasn't a contest and you did nothing wrong, you were opening yourself up to being reported/getting a warning/getting frozen.
Yet Neopets doesn't seem to follow its own rules. This was taken from http://www.neopets.com/happymeal/dailyprize.phtml:
"McDonald's Daily Giveaway!
From May 28th through June 24th you'll be able to find a Neopets Plushie in every McDonald's Happy Meal. During that time, you'll also be able to visit us here and get your own virtual prize - a different one every day!
It could be an item, a bag of Neopoints, or something really silly, who knows
Click the button below to get today's prize!"
What Neo ought to do that would save a lot of people grief is to put a big post on the front page of the news during the month of December saying "Please don't have giveaways, contests, secret santas, or wishboards. They are against the rules. And, please don't give things away on the Neoboards either." Honestly, would that be so hard?
Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:16 pm
Morningstar, I think there should be something on the main boards page (like the no pool statement on the AC) and a "sticky" at the top of every board saying things like: No contests, giveaways, raffles, ftp, begging, chain letters, asking for personal information (email/aim/im), no offers to pay/no charging for graphics.
These are things I see every day and they're all against the rules. But people don't read the rules, the chat rules or the wall of shame. Or they do, but the T&C is so vague in some areas, it's hard to know what is and isn't ok on certain issues. I think it needs to be more like the chat rules - a really clear list in plain language. There's stuff in the T&C I don't understand - and I worked for lawyers for over 20 years!
Then there's those "unwritten" rules and the fact that if you write to support asking a question you can get either an "I don't know, I think ... " type of answer, or an (old?) autoform response that is contradictory to the rules, or doesn't actually answer your question at all, get an answer that's the opposite of an answer someone else gets (on the same question) - or get no answer. Someone somewhere is not getting the right information to the Support team.
I wouldn't post anything anywhere saying I was giving anything away. It still sounds like a giveaway, even if you use 2 words or put something between - like giving a pet away, or giving snowballs away ... It still sounds like a giveaway.
Yeah, I know, Neo puts things like Giveaway, ebay, hell, d , cookie, Contest on the site - all stuff that can and does get us members in trouble for typing them. Heck I've seen people get warnings for telling other people to NOT post giveaways, contests or chain letters!
These are things I see every day and they're all against the rules. But people don't read the rules, the chat rules or the wall of shame. Or they do, but the T&C is so vague in some areas, it's hard to know what is and isn't ok on certain issues. I think it needs to be more like the chat rules - a really clear list in plain language. There's stuff in the T&C I don't understand - and I worked for lawyers for over 20 years!
Then there's those "unwritten" rules and the fact that if you write to support asking a question you can get either an "I don't know, I think ... " type of answer, or an (old?) autoform response that is contradictory to the rules, or doesn't actually answer your question at all, get an answer that's the opposite of an answer someone else gets (on the same question) - or get no answer. Someone somewhere is not getting the right information to the Support team.
I wouldn't post anything anywhere saying I was giving anything away. It still sounds like a giveaway, even if you use 2 words or put something between - like giving a pet away, or giving snowballs away ... It still sounds like a giveaway.
Yeah, I know, Neo puts things like Giveaway, ebay, hell, d , cookie, Contest on the site - all stuff that can and does get us members in trouble for typing them. Heck I've seen people get warnings for telling other people to NOT post giveaways, contests or chain letters!
Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:01 pm
Naniwai wrote:In case there was any confusion, the Monitors are not the same as the regular Neopets staff. They don't work in the Neopets offices.
Thank you for clearing that up for me