Powerpets vs Neopets. THE first move

[Kitten Medli]

1. Glitches. ALL THE TIME. TP glitches, BD glitches, ALWAYS GLITCHES! What do you get when a glitch happens? If you're lucky, they'll acknowledge it. IF YOU'RE LUCKY. Your millions in items? Nah.

2. Downtime. Unscheduled. All the time. DFM Pteri? All the time.

3. Scammers, cheaters, hackers, etc. More often than not? You get screwed over because of them.

But those aren't always their fault. Sometimes, yes, sometimes, no.

I, although, must agree the ads are kind of annoying. And the fact they they are gone on Premium is unfair for those who are not lucky enough to have the money and the permission of their parents to pay for it.

[ausen]

Not their fault?

Glitches ARE their fault. Their programmers and Server managers did something wrong, so bad things happen. Downtime IS their fault. They make MILLIONS off the stuff the sell and those ads, have hundreds of servers, but can't keep a site up? Please.

And don't say it's because of the load placed on it by all the pageviews. the site doesn't DIE, you still get that front page and the DFM page, and can still play the games. Considering the size of the server farm they must own, you'd think they'd have an admin that would be able to keep the site up. An hour of downtime, maybe 2...a day of downtime is just bs, considering what the players put up with. Monster ads get you downtime? Please

Consider that PP has 300k users and every last scammer is caught and frozen, each and every time. People just don't get away with that stuff. Not only that, but items are returned, wrongs are righted and people get to recoup their losses. Surely Neo could do SOME of that, right? Nah. I see scammers all the time on the boards and on the TP. ALL the time. Hackings are non-existant on PP. Not Neo. Coincidence? No. Just a more dedicated staff who's work isn't driven by a dollar sign or a quota.

[Cranberry]

Search engines rank sites by the traffic on the sites. PP may not be number one, but it's safe to say they're in the top 10. Google has them fourth, Ask.com has them 6th. They aren't even in the top 10 on Yahoo. Not even the top FIFTY. You read that right. Coincidence? Unlikely. Neo "asking" Yahoo to bump them? Well....

Can you clarify this, please? Where are you getting these statistics from?

[cyleigh]

Not their fault?

Glitches ARE their fault. Their programmers and Server managers did something wrong, so bad things happen. Downtime IS their fault. They make MILLIONS off the stuff the sell and those ads, have hundreds of servers, but can't keep a site up? Please.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

I work in a Computer Science Department at a University. Our annual budget is around AU $1 Million a year for our servers. In conjunction with the Physics and Chemistry Departments we own a couple of pretty good supercomputers, one of them is in the Top 100 Supercomputers in the world.

And ya know what? Our machines go down at least once a week. Throwing money at the problem does not always solve it. The programmers and managers probably did NOT cause the problem, when a server dies, it is very rarely the result of a programmer error.

I have no opinion on PowerPets.. However, I don't think that you really have a good understanding of the complexities of keeping such a large site such as Neopets alive.

[ausen]

Statistics? I searched the darn things.

Virtual Pets, Virtual Pet, Virtual Pet Sites, Pet sites (though that had stuff that wasn't games ;x)

Just google virtual pet site. Try it on ask. Then go to Yahoo and tell me where you find PowerPets. That's not a coincidence. They use very similar methods of ranking searches. There's no way PP falls all the way down that list on Yahoo and nowhere else.

[Cranberry]

Statistics? I searched the darn things.

Virtual Pets, Virtual Pet, Virtual Pet Sites, Pet sites (though that had stuff that wasn't games ;x)

Just google virtual pet site. Try it on ask. Then go to Yahoo and tell me where you find PowerPets. That's not a coincidence. They use very similar methods of ranking searches. There's no way PP falls all the way down that list on Yahoo and nowhere else.

That doesn't prove Neopets made Yahoo "bump" Power Pets -- if they could even do such a thing. Do you have proof to back up your claims?

[ausen]

And ya know what? Our machines go down at least once a week. Throwing money at the problem does not always solve it. The programmers and managers probably did NOT cause the problem, when a server dies, it is very rarely the result of a programmer error.

I have no opinion on PowerPets.. However, I don't think that you really have a good understanding of the complexities of keeping such a large site such as Neopets alive.

I think you're missing the point.

As I believe I said, I could understand SOME downtime. Yes, sites die.

What I don't understand is how the heck do they have THAT MUCH downtime? I'm fairly certain Neopets has more servers than your college does, which would mean they can hold quite a bit of traffic. Sometimes, things go down. I get it.

But they stay down. For days. And not just once or twice; it's almost a monthly thing. War starts? DFM Pteri for over a day.

I get that the site goes down...but it stays down. And not just for a little while. 24 hours of downtime on a site like that? How is that accepted? How do people say, "Oh, they've invested all the time and money into those servers, they died for a day, oh well".

I admit, I'm not a Computer Science major. I still know what a lot of downtime is, and I still know that problems shouldn't take that long to fix every time. ONCE, TWICE, maybe. But all the time? When you can say it's happened before and think of a few times it's happened, yeah, that's a problem.

If you're asking if I have e-mails that Neo sent Yahoo, or a shredded paper I stole from some garbage bag or something, then no, I don't. But a reliable source told me that. Like I said, it seems too out of the ordinary to be a coincidence, but I do admit that no, I don't have a copy of the phone call from when the people at Neo called Yahoo and said "STOP IT! STOP LISTING PP!"

Inrun Edit: Please don't double post.

[o_0]

Ooh, a reliable source.

There are no hackings on Neopets either. Only scamming. And I say cookie stealers are scams because you can get anti-cookie stealers from Microsoft for free.

[ausen]

And with that said, I'll be leaving. Never really liked PPT; no offense to the people here, just too many pop-ups on the main site for my liking.

Whether you like Neo or PP as a game is a preference. Everyone's allowed one.

That said, be very certain that it wasn't an "uncalled-for article", "completely out of left field", "entirely unjustified" and "total bs". PP doesn't roll like that. They don't just go around attacking anyone they don't like. If it was written, there's a reason...and it was given with the article. Don't make this something it isn't ;)

For all people have said that they disagree with PPs actions, I have yet to see a single person refute the claims the article makes. Nobody says it's wrong. People don't like that PP wrote it, but they had reasons, I'm certain they were valid ones and it's done. That said....the article paints a pretty sad picture, yet nobody is denying it. Is the article WRONG? Or are you just used to putting up with all the crap they listed?

Hey, I liked Neo at one point too. I understand why people like it. I also know why I gave it up; I'm sick of being trampled on and treated like dirt. If you think it's worth it, hey, by all means, your choice, I'm not here to convert you.

But just remember the crap Neo puts you through and the BS they give you for it. Is it worth it? Is putting a line in your signature about how you lost your SoS worth your time? Just something to think about...

[Cranberry]

If you're asking if I have e-mails that Neo sent Yahoo, or a shredded paper I stole from some garbage bag or something, then no, I don't. But a reliable source told me that. Like I said, it seems too out of the ordinary to be a coincidence, but I do admit that no, I don't have a copy of the phone call from when the people at Neo called Yahoo and said "STOP IT! STOP LISTING PP!"

If you're going to register at a forum full of strangers and rail against a game they like, it's a good idea to make sure all your information is factual and provable.

Although we all like Neopets here, many of us do have issues with certain aspects of the support/marketing side of things, as well as the downtime and glitches, and we can and do make our opinions heard. I know many people here like hearing all kinds of views, positive and negative. However, we don't put much stock in rants that people can't back up with proof.

[ausen]

No hackings on Neo?

Two Rarity 99 weapons that were released on Jhudora Day make their way into the hidden tower at INSANE Power levels and ridiculously cheap prices. within hours, they are retired and powered down. That wasn't a hack? Neo meant to do that? Yeah....

Need I remind you of the things ad0 did? Or do you not remember those....;)

If Neo doesn't have hackings, I'm the King of England.

[o_0]

No, I meant ACCOUNTS don't get hacked.

Not the actual site. >.>

[Mxytdvc]

And ya know what? Our machines go down at least once a week. Throwing money at the problem does not always solve it. The programmers and managers probably did NOT cause the problem, when a server dies, it is very rarely the result of a programmer error.

I have no opinion on PowerPets.. However, I don't think that you really have a good understanding of the complexities of keeping such a large site such as Neopets alive.

[...]

I admit, I'm not a Computer Science major. I still know what a lot of downtime is, and I still know that problems shouldn't take that long to fix every time. ONCE, TWICE, maybe. But all the time? When you can say it's happened before and think of a few times it's happened, yeah, that's a problem.

Downtime takes ages to fix. The CS computer labs at my university were once down for almost a day...and we back up each night...it's not really something where you can just flip a switch and it goes *poof* and works again. Even if we were to retrieve someone's lost data, it could take anywhere from 30 min to a day. It's just not as simple as it sounds.


Bringing a system backonline take a very long time, and depending on whats broken it can be a huge headache.

Also bugs happen. Debugging is one of the longest processes for programming. I've spent many hours debugging (not to mention writing) programs. To the point where I'd rather throw the program out a window and start all over again (have also lost countless stress balls because of this, LOL). Sometimes bugs are just being really annoying and are hard to fix/find because it often requires rewrites of stuff. Why do you think Microsoft releases so many security patches? It's impossible to account for everything that will go wrong, but you can sure try! (Like with alpha testing games....talk about fun! ).

So auctually....with the load that neopets handles, it seems perfectly resonable to have downtime that last multiple hours. I don't know how much code runs around thier website, but it's also resonably for loss of data now and then. It happens with your PC's...come on, how many times has Word or something crashed on you in the middle of a paper? Your only option is to either use your backup (if you save) or restart word and hope the auto save has some of your work still. Other places may give back items based on what the user says but there is a lot of abuse with that type of system.

Another way to understand the long downtimes.... think how long it takes to install large programs on your computer. I think when I installed Macromedia Studio onto my computer it took up to an hour or something....now Neopets most likely has stuff much larger then something that would fit onto my computer, and therefore, it would take longer. The technology for instant installing, backups and rollbacks isn't quite here yet .

[ProfessorRemusMoonyLupin]

And ya know what? Our machines go down at least once a week. Throwing money at the problem does not always solve it. The programmers and managers probably did NOT cause the problem, when a server dies, it is very rarely the result of a programmer error.

I have no opinion on PowerPets.. However, I don't think that you really have a good understanding of the complexities of keeping such a large site such as Neopets alive.

I think you're missing the point.

As I believe I said, I could understand SOME downtime. Yes, sites die.

What I don't understand is how the heck do they have THAT MUCH downtime? I'm fairly certain Neopets has more servers than your college does, which would mean they can hold quite a bit of traffic. Sometimes, things go down. I get it.

But they stay down. For days. And not just once or twice; it's almost a monthly thing. War starts? DFM Pteri for over a day.

I get that the site goes down...but it stays down. And not just for a little while. 24 hours of downtime on a site like that? How is that accepted? How do people say, "Oh, they've invested all the time and money into those servers, they died for a day, oh well".

I admit, I'm not a Computer Science major. I still know what a lot of downtime is, and I still know that problems shouldn't take that long to fix every time. ONCE, TWICE, maybe. But all the time? When you can say it's happened before and think of a few times it's happened, yeah, that's a problem.

...I think you're the one missing the point. No computer is perfect. Not even one of the top 100 supercomputers in the world. I bet not even the top supercomputer in the world. And I bet that the neoservers are a lot lower tech than those. You have a right to your opinion as do all of us, but maybe you should just stop and think for a sec and actually listen before letting your little conspiracy theories do the thinking for you. Nothing's perfect. Everyone makes mistakes.


Edit: Okay, mebbe I'm being a little mean, which is so not myself... But I really hate people that just don't listen and just keep yammering on about the same old stuff and insisting their the only one that's right and everyone else is just a bunch of idiots and no matter what expertise they have on the subject, they're wrong.

[Twisted Sanity]

What I see here is a die-hard PP fan trying their best to disgrace Neo and make it seem like an overrated pile of trash.

I had a look at PP, and many other sites in the same category as it and Neo, and out of all of them, Neo is the one that proves to be most interesting, fun and addictive (in a good way ). And you must remember something very important. 300k users is a bloody massive load, but I can bet that TNT recieve more bug reports, complaints, comments, un-freeze requests, reports, return items requests, compensation requests, every week. I mean, there are roughly over 20 million active users on the site for goodness sake!

When PP begins catering for such a large expanse of users, I will be sitting by and laughing as they try to keep up with their promise of no banner ads, no excessive downtime, guaranteed item returns, minimal glitches and whatever else they claim to do that Neo does not do. The staff probably won't even be able to chat on the boards any more, for fear of their thread being flooded with "OMGzrz!! CaN U LyKe GiMmE a MiLLIOn PoWeR BuX!?!?! PLZZZZ!" Don't say it won't happen, becuase by the time they reach that many users, there will be a lot of these kinds of people.

Powerpets is most likely a good site. I wouldn't know as I have never played it. But if they ever plan on reaching the status of Neo, they will seriously need to reconsider their promises. In fact, I can PROMISE YOU that before they even reach 40 million accounts the following things will happen:
*the site will be swarmed with cheaters, scammers, hackers (yes hackers, like ad0)
*downtime will be a more frequent occurence
*the staff will not be so generous in returning all items lost in glitches since glitches will happen a lot more often
*the staff will be expected to update a lot more frequently for fear of being labelled as boring.
*The staff will not post very often on the boards.
*Ads will reign terror over the site, much like they do on Neo
*A site similar to PPT called Brown Barking Dog will be put up, where masses of PP users will complain about unfairly lost accounts, ads, scammers, and anything else they find innapropriate or unfair

Maybe that was a bit harsh, but it's the truth. The more you cater for, the harder things become, and sometimes, the worse the end product becomes (McDonalds is a perfect example).

So just a friendly notice to everyone. If PP ever reaches such a massively high status, be prepared for a full assault of new fluffy PP merchandise and KFC Promotions.