Members: What do you feel about how things are run?

[Cranberry]

Also, I really feel that it's the user's responsibility to keep track of his or her own threads. Egosearches are not difficult or especially time-consuming, and usually with the browser's "find" capability posts can be found within seconds. Is a minute of your life really worth the possible confusion? I think it would be especially nice for mods to PM you linking to the thread and saying "It's now in such and such forum" but that is a courtesy and we should not expect moderators to do that much for us.

If you paid attention to my post, you'd see that I don't actually want mods to move a thread and then PM the starter telling them where it is (although, as someone who's moderated/supermodded various forums for more than seven years now, I don't think that would be too much to ask of a mod). That might be helpful for the starter, but not for anyone else who was following the discussion. I want them to leave the locked/redirecting thread in the original forum so all posters know where the thread went. No, it is not incredibly difficult for an experienced forumite to do a vanity search and find out where a thread they posted on disappeared to, but it's still a hassle and would be confusing for new members.

I don't buy the "it messes up the forum" thing, either. How many threads per day get moved? Also, when they're moved, the "ghost" thread is locked and can't be posted on anymore, so it quickly moves down the page -- it doesn't sit there all day blocking active discussions. I have posted on a LOT of forums, most much busier than PPT, and PPT is the only forum I know of that just vanishes threads with no redirect. It's annoying.

I really do appreciate the moderation team giving us a chance to voice our opinions on how the forum is run and although the staff do a great job as it is, there is always room for improvement. A lot of long standing, eloquent members have bought up many points on how we could all improve the forums but every suggestion has been pretty much excused by somebody. As in, "yes that's a valid point but... *insert reason why it shouldn't be changed*".

Yeah, I was going to comment on that, myself. I don't see the point of this thread, honestly. It is very nice that we have a thread like this where we can offer feedback, but I haven't seen anyone even consider one of the suggestions yet, even though we've brought up things that annoy a lot of members. This just seems more like a thread for the mods and admins to justify how things currently are... and if they don't want to change, that's fine, but don't bother asking us what we want.

[mazil]

In regards to ghost (or locked copies of) topics...

How about a one week trial? Perhaps on a few select boards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like more a matter of notifying all the mods of the new policy, than a big technical issue.

*shrugs* We could argue back and forth about reasons why it'd be good or bad ... but if it's not too hard to actually try it out, then maybe it's worth it. Once the trial is done, we can be a bit more justified of our opinions either way as to whether it works here.

Might be worth applying the "trial" idea to other ideas, too...

Hanyway. *throws hugs at the mods* Thankyou for the time and effort you put in. Many people around the world enjoy the forums, thanks to you

[TDG]

I really do appreciate the moderation team giving us a chance to voice our opinions on how the forum is run and although the staff do a great job as it is, there is always room for improvement. A lot of long standing, eloquent members have bought up many points on how we could all improve the forums but every suggestion has been pretty much excused by somebody. As in, "yes that's a valid point but... *insert reason why it shouldn't be changed*".

Yeah, I was going to comment on that, myself. I don't see the point of this thread, honestly. It is very nice that we have a thread like this where we can offer feedback, but I haven't seen anyone even consider one of the suggestions yet, even though we've brought up things that annoy a lot of members. This just seems more like a thread for the mods and admins to justify how things currently are... and if they don't want to change, that's fine, but don't bother asking us what we want.

A recent survey was done at my school - over the 450 people given survey forms, only 40% returned them. When asked why the rest weren't returned, many people said "Nothing gets done from surveys".

In a lot of cases, its true. Surveys are given out, opinions are expressed and then people say "Thanks" and never do anything about it. Here, we are actually taking things into consideration. In the last few months, there have been growing complaints about how the staff do things and growing insults towards staff and their decision. We're trying to see why, so that we can act on it.

I know at the moment it seems like a case of "I'll post and then be shot down by a mod", but its not. We are taking things said here seriously, especially notions that are being brought up more than once. Give it some time and you'll see changes being brought in. Remember, the thread's only been here a few days - we want to make sure we're acting with as much guidance as possible, rather than bringing in changes overhastily.

[Mongrel]

(Also, personally: when someone double-posts at IDB, I simply merge the two posts; I don't bother telling them not to double-post. Often it's an accident, or they only do it the once. If I look around and see them double-posting several times, then I will post asking them not to, or send a PM.)

I feel like that's a way of teaching other new members not to double-post. Most of the double-posts seem to come from very new members, and happen on the Plot boards or the Neopets Help boards. If a new person wants to add something to his last thought in a plot discussion thread, he's a lot less likely to double-post if there's an edited post three or four posts up saying "Please use the EDIT button instead of double-posting."

[Pudding]

I know that I've reexamined the things I do, and how and why I do them based on this thread. I'm also coordinating a fairly big project that was spurred along/partially inspired by things several posters have said here. So, things are definitely happening because of this; they just might not be obvious yet.

(Also, personally: when someone double-posts at IDB, I simply merge the two posts; I don't bother telling them not to double-post. Often it's an accident, or they only do it the once. If I look around and see them double-posting several times, then I will post asking them not to, or send a PM.)

I feel like that's a way of teaching other new members not to double-post. Most of the double-posts seem to come from very new members, and happen on the Plot boards or the Neopets Help boards. If a new person wants to add something to his last thought in a plot discussion thread, he's a lot less likely to double-post if there's an edited post three or four posts up saying "Please use the EDIT button instead of double-posting."

Exactly. I assume that for every double-post in the threads that get a lot of double-posts, there is at least one person reading who didn't know the rule yet and will learn it that way. This was pretty dramatic in the JttLI threads, enough so that I crunched some numbers on them once. There were something like 900% more double-posts in the first thread compared to the thread that had just finished when I did the math. My best guess is that most of that change was brought on by people reading the notes.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, I should probably clarify that I (personally) don't mind the "please don't double post" edits as much as I do other edits -- the double-post correction seems more helpful, while editing for other reasons can seem more humiliating. I don't think I've ever had one of my posts edited, but I know it's embarrassed others who have. And yeah, that can sometimes be a good thing, as it can make people stop an annoying habit, but I guess you have to decide whether it's worth it to have the forum at large thinking you're mean for humiliating people. (Also, I know it's not your intention to humiliate people; none of you are that mean! That's just how a lot of people feel when you edit their posts in colored font and don't allow them to edit the correction out.)

My main complaint is the vanishing threads, really, and the coddling of members who get upset at the tiniest argument.

[Fiddelysquat]

I make it a habit to PM people whose boards I move to tell them where it is, but I'm behind the 'ghost topic' idea. Cranberry is right: it's not as if locked topics will conquer the forums like Mooninites in Boston. They're locked: they flow down the page fast enough, but they're there long enough for people who were posting in that thread to see where it's gone.

I'm also willing to jump on board with ditching in-post edits and PMing members every time. I see no harm in that suggestion.

I'm also for letting members engage in healthy debate. If you maturely disagree with someone, there's nothing wrong with that. I know we have a Debate board and you won't be seeing any topics like abortion being discussed in Misc Disc, but I'm all for people arguing their point.

For the "coddling", the real problem is the discrepancy between how people handle things. Some people can eat coal and poo diamonds they're so tough, so somebody copping an attitude at them is no big deal. On the other end of the spectrum, some people cry at the drop of a pin and would have a meltdown if someone told them they were being "silly" or if they misinterpret the use of a smiley. Most people are somewhere in between, thank God.

Even if we base it on the individuals involved, let's say that we let two users, Peg and Dan, get away with being a bit snippy with eachother. In another thread, Emotional Emmy is in a discussion and Snarky Susan is snippy with her. If we punish Susan for being short with Emmy, Susan could just easily turn around and say, "Peg and Dan just acted the same way in another thread. Why aren't THEY in trouble? You're playing favorites..." etc. (Meanwhile Emmy is going through 90 packs of Kleenex.)

[Uncle Xyzzy]

People don't need to be told that their topic has been moved; we have search and many other useful ways to find it.

The first time one of my topics was moved, I ran into it almost immediately; it's not that hard.

[Cranberry]

I honestly don't understand why people are against the idea of "ghost topics" being left. The only arguments against it are "it clutters the forum" (which it doesn't; not many topics are actually moved, and the ghost topic is locked anyway and falls down the page within a day) and "it's easy to find a topic you posted on" (no, it's not hard, but it's an unnecessary hassle, and what if you haven't actually been posting, just reading? Then it's more annoying to find). PPT is the only forum I've ever posted/worked on that doesn't leave a "ghost topic" -- and this includes much larger, busier forums.

(Thanks, Fiddelysquat, for agreeing with the points I made about this. )

Seriously, does the idea of ghost topics really bother you random members so much that you feel the need to argue against it here before we even try it? What, you don't like the idea of moved topics being easier to find, or something? I don't get that at all.

Last edited by Cranberry on Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Fiddelysquat]

People don't need to be told that their topic has been moved; we have search and many other useful ways to find it.

The first time one of my topics was moved, I ran into it almost immediately; it's not that hard.

But sometimes newer people aren't that good at utilizing all of the forum's tools. They don't know, for instance, that they could access it by checking the post history, etc. Or they might think it was deleted instead of moved and make another one, assuming it's a glitch because nobody told them what happened.

[Keakealani]

Okay, that's totally fair. I'm willing to try it.

Personally, besides the argument that I do think it's unnecessary clutter, I think it's way more confusing to have multiple copies of the same thread in different forums, even if it's locked in those forums. Maybe I'm just really weird, but if I see a topic while perusing one forum, then I run into the exact same topic in another forum, I tend to get really confused, like "wait, am I in the right place?" Also, if the topic really isn't at all suited for the forum it was originally posted in, then it can be confusing for members who just read "Topics like xxxx are not allowed here" and then see "xxxx" as a topic there.

But, again, I'm willing to try it - if you swear by ghost topics that much, it must be really good, and I guess I just don't really know that much about running forums.

[Fiddelysquat]

I think we could easily set up a system where the ghost topic is deleted by a mod after 3 days. Does that sound fair?

[theonlysaneone]

One feature that is sorely lacking in these forums: spoiler tags. I really hate having to do

this

any time I want to hide something, and it doesn't even work on some of the skins. It would also solve the problem of a maximum size for screenies.

[Arka]

Okay, that's totally fair. I'm willing to try it.

Personally, besides the argument that I do think it's unnecessary clutter, I think it's way more confusing to have multiple copies of the same thread in different forums, even if it's locked in those forums. Maybe I'm just really weird, but if I see a topic while perusing one forum, then I run into the exact same topic in another forum, I tend to get really confused, like "wait, am I in the right place?" Also, if the topic really isn't at all suited for the forum it was originally posted in, then it can be confusing for members who just read "Topics like xxxx are not allowed here" and then see "xxxx" as a topic there.

But, again, I'm willing to try it - if you swear by ghost topics that much, it must be really good, and I guess I just don't really know that much about running forums.

The ghost topics that I have seen have a notation something such as "(topic name) has been moved" in the subject line. Then if the member clicks the topic, the forum redirects the click to the new location. It is not as if there is the same thread in different locations. There is only one location, and just the notice of the topic having been moved still there in the original forum. And, as has been mentioned, the notice (the ghost )sinks down since no one can post on it- it isn't there, just the ghost of it.

[Uncle Xyzzy]

One feature that is sorely lacking in these forums: spoiler tags. I really hate having to do

this

any time I want to hide something, and it doesn't even work on some of the skins. It would also solve the problem of a maximum size for screenies.

Hmm, that would be nice.

*Stares at the light blue on SubBlack, wishing he couldn't*