Pink Poogle Toy Forum

I think that saying happy holiday is not that big of a deal. It's not like saying that it's the best holiday, it's just saying that they have a happy one. If that person got warned then she did something wrong, I don't think neopets will warn or freeze someone for wishing a happy holiday, and if they did then thats just stupid and unreasonable. Maybe after she got the warning she complained rudly and that was the reason she got frozen.

About the gay issue, I saw the guy with the "I like guys, I'm gay" in his sig, and even though I don't have any problems with gays, I was surprised he wasn't frozen. I'm regular that for evey thing you say you can get a warning, depends on how harsh it is, and this is something you can get frozen for although I don't know why.

Actually plenty of people celebrate christmas. Like in offices, they have those present giving things where people buy something worth $20 and then someone random gets it. Even non christians join in on that one. And i think non christians think of it as a more commercial holiday, just like people associate easter with eggs and bunnies. If neopets stopped the christmas pbs they would have to stop the easter neggs as well. And well, that cross on the hospital has to go..

Just wanted to add, it would be more fair if Neopets took other religions and cultures into consideration but it's not likely and would involve a load of work. And then if NPT addressed the major holidays, others who 's festivals are 'minor' would complain that their holidays and festivals were not recognised.

We've allready established that christmas is more of a cultural holiday rather than the religious. Many people who celebrate it don't actually follow the christian religions.

Also the paintbrushes bear nothing on actual christian things. Santa claus for one was never in the bible.

As for the person wishing a jewish holiday. They may have said somthing a little more than that. How can we know? A lot of people who get frozen exagerate the reasons and make out they are the innocent party.

I personally like the no-religion rule. That way religion is kept to personal life and less confusion is caused. Many young people will believe almost anything they hear on the internet so it's important for a family site to steer clear of it. The boards about religion I've whitnessed have had extreemly nasty posts like "God isn't real" "You're all delusional". It's just better not to have it at all because all it does it cause arguments.

As for all the uproar about neopets team not sticking to this rule themselves. As in christmas pb/ Angel looking zafara. I personally think you're taking it way too far.
Most societys were built on religion and have a whole history of it. So there are bound to be things associated with it in every place you look. You could argue that lord Darigan looks like Satan. Or many other things.



If we pooled together I know we could find a lot more things on neopets that you could link to one religious holiday or another. Society is based on it and there is no getting away.

I never saw this persons post. Therefore I can't make any judgement. The rules state no talk about religious matters. I think she's taking it too far using the word "racism" as it is nothing of the sort. I wouldn't sign this petition as I have no idea of the real situation. The thread they were frozen for may have gone on for a while, arguments over relgion and such. How do we know?

I think it's a whole rant about nothing. I suppose easter neggs are out next eh? And Halloween paint brushes...



Thats allways a touchy subject. I know there will be a lot of people against homosexuality on neopets. So I guess in their interests it's best to warn people for mentioning the word.

Saying that. I had a conversation once on the neoboards about it with some people. I'm supprised we didn't get warned myself. But looking at some of the boards. The language is far worse than meely stating you're a gay. So maybe they overlooked it.

But seeing as all relationship talk is supposed to be banned. I can't really be so botherd about the anti-gay feel of neopets.

He is? Meaning Adam Powell??? I didn't know that...

And of course the person wasn't frozen for being Jewish! They were frozen for talking about it on the boards, just as all the people who post "JESUS IS YOUR LORD COME HERE AND BE SAVED" should be.

I've had this debate before, and I think that what Neopets does in terms of celebrating Christmas is alright because they don't make it religious at all, they even call it "day of giving" most of the time. Others disagree with me, I know, but it would really be sad if there was nothing special at all on Christmas. And although it would be nice to celebrate other religions' holidays as well, they'd always end up missing one or two at least and those people would be offended.

Pertaining to the Chistmas Paintbrush and Easter Neggs, if we want to argue about anything, it is how society has commercialized these two religious holidays to the extent that they can be celebrated by everyone, but then complains that they are discriminatory.

Saying that though, I have no problem with the aforementioned items. Maybe it's because I'm Catholic (err... sorta), though. Sure it'd be cool to change their names (there's no need to redo all the pets, they are commercial enough) to be more "Neopets" but what would they be? "Happy Winter Day"? "Happy Negg Day"? I guess those in favour of putting a religious ban on Neopets want the Advent Calendar to go too? I don't see getting around that one.

The Anubis and Horus point. They were pagan gods of an ancient culture that is long gone. Sure, wiccans and other "New Age" pagans worship them, but there is a reason the beliefs of the ancient Egyptians is called "mythology". If people are offended by those 2 petpets... well... I'd rather not getting in trouble for saying what I think about those people.

Thats it from me. Personally I think this topic should be locked, because as mentioned above there is a reason you are told "there are two things to never discuss with friends: religion and politics". Though this has been more civilized than I thought it would be, I must admit.

Oh and the person who said Santa is not in the bible. While that may be true, what do you think "Santa" even means? Santa Claus is based off of a Catholic (which is a sect of Christian... I hate grouping them all under one word since they are so radically different) saint. "Jolly old Saint Nick", anyone?

Tis true that saint nick and santa ect all came from religious roots. But so did almost everything we do today. That was the point I was trying to make.

I agree it's a pointless argument really. But I am supprised at how civil people have been ^^

It has been awhile since I have been here, but I hope you don't mind me adding my two cents...

*Before you read this a quick warning, I do have personal faith beliefs and I have written it from an objective standpoint that everyone has the right to their own faith. That being said, as an example of what someone could say I have written faith statements. For the most part it is from my own view point because I can express that clearest and not get into the sticky stituation of "Hey! I'm insert faith that is so wrong! We don't believe that at all!" If I do say something that you do or do not believe and you want to talk or clarify the matter with me personally, feel free to do so through PM if it wouldn't be appropriate in this thread. If it requires further discussion, the conversation can be taken to IM or email as necessary.

Ok first of all, religion, st least as it is discussed by individual members is properly banned. There are already enough issues with people posting things about witchcraft and vampires on the evil sightings board. I just risked a quick look over there and although it seems to be getting better, there still are the topics like "wiccan and goth chat (believers welcome)" and "blood bar". While I understand that those aren't "major" religions, Neopets seems to ignore them. Talking about religion openly on neopets is just a bad idea. It will create fights faster than you can imagine. Think about it, say they create a "religious board" and since I'm a Christian and I want to connect with other Christians, I go and post a board like "If you know Christ as your Savior come here!" I'll probably find that I get a few honest Christians who want to talk, but I will also get a handful of argumenative Muslims, Jews, Atheist, Pagans, Buddhist, Hindus, and who knows who else. That is obviously if I was on my best behavior. If that board were open, I could also go on the board and say things like "You're all going to hell unless you believe in Jesus!" and I'm sure that would be true of many Christians and of many other faiths. Atheists would shoot back "Well I'm not too worried about hell because there is no hell" and you can see how the conversation would quickly turn very sour. Now this is bad enough, but say some 7 year old wanders into this chat and because their parents are Christian and they have been raised to believe in God and Jesus. Now they are literally in the middle of a spiritual battleground that they are not prepared for. It could seriously screw a kid up. He has been raised his whole life to believe that God loves him and now he is being told there is no God or that there are many Gods or that he is God. As a comparison, anyone who was raised to believe in Santa (I'm not going into the origins of Santa, I don't know anyone who thinks of Santa as a religious figure) growing up, do you know anyone who was told "Santa doesn't exist" a little too early? It was traumatic. Well this kid has been raised to believe that God is way more important than Santa, and it can lead to real psycological problems. That is why disscussion of religion by the members in an open forum is a problem.

As fars a neopets "advocating" one religion over another. I feel like Neopets has done it more culturally than religiously. As others have touched on, Christmas and Easter in the western world are both a religious and a cultural event. What Neopets has done is create a familiar atmosphere, their user base has been and still remains primarily western. In America, during the month of December, the nation is focused on preparing for Christmas, the news is flush with how the Christmas sales rush is going, it is a national holiday, kids get the time off school and most businesses give at least some time off, it permeates our towns with decorations in the public square. That is significantly a cultural event. Yes the culture grew up as a result of religion, but it is now cultural too. Reiterating someone else's point, many people celebrat Christmas without believing or perhaps even knowing about the faith that started it. The same thing about the Easter comments (I've already gone on about Christmas, I'm sure you can draw your own parallels to how this applies for Easter and Halloween.) Neopets has created a calender which reflects that which is going on with their primary market base. Arguablely if they are going to continue to push the global market, they may want to either eliminate some of those things, or perhaps even add more (I wouldn't object to an "advent calender" type thing or any other celebratory recognition for the Chinese new year, Muslim new year, Yom Kippur, or any other holiday. If it means free stuff for my neopet, sure, that is cool with me. I don't have to worship that religion just because neopets chooses to recognize it.

As I said I am a Christian, but I don't have a problem with Neopets as an organization having the Annubis and Horus. Someone mentioned the cross on the hospital, that has little to nothing to do with Christianity. Maybe way back when it was created that way, but today, with the kind of cross that they are using it is embematic of hospital care. I'm pretty sure it is the international symbol for medical care, therefore it is appropriate. I feel like the greeting cards are appropriate because that is more of a personal correspondance. I don't feel like I can fairly give commentary as to whether or not the Christmas and Easter celebrations bother me because that is my personal faith. But I would have no problem whatsoever with neopets recognizing other holidays.

Like VirtualMetal said Kudos to everyone for keeping this civil, but if I said something that offended you, direct that at me through an IM. [/b]

TNT said they would be changing it to, "Happy Valley Paint Brush".
They have so much evil stuff on neopets.
The neopets creators must be evil.
I don't want my Christmas Zafara changing into an old jolly man that looks like he lives in Switzerland like the Chia.
But why do TNT celebrate St. Davids day?
He is a SAINT!

That's right, they were talking about changing the name to happy valley pb! I knew they talked of changing the pb, but for some reason thought it was something like seasonal...happy valley makes sense, I guess.

Evil stuff...No, that doesn't mean the creators are evil , really! Lots of people like slightly (or more than slightly) evil stuff. It's fun, and I'm sure lots of fun to think up and draw and write about.

I wouldn't want to see that zafara changed either, I think it's lovely and adorable. And I'm not a "too cute" fan.

Adam's Welsh, I think that's why they say Happy St. David's Day. Harmless to me, really. But then, I happen to like seeing different holidays from different cultures/religions/countries. If I've never heard of that holiday before, I'll go do a quick search and try to find out at least a little about that holiday. It's good for people to step outside their own "box" like Morningstar said her school did. I loved that!

Many people celebrate or at least know Happy St. Patrick's Day. Don't see anyone getting up in arms about that.

The biggest thing I've seen people get stirred up about is if a holiday they celebrate is not mentioned on the site, like Canadian specific holidays for example.

Gay? Well, this whole thing didn't start out having anything to do with that. No, it's not allowed on the site, people have gotten warned/frozen for posting about that subject. I believe in live and let live. But there are younger ones who either have parental permission or lie when signing up, so they're on the boards. I've seen the siggys and I've seen statements on lookups too. If younger children don't know about things like that, Neo is not the place to learn about it.

Pagan? That's not really a "religion" per se, that's more a way of blanket identifying as being non-Christian while not being agnostic -- you believe in something, calling yourself pagan doesn't (normally) say what. And the whole goth/vamp thing, well that's definitely not a religion, that seems to be more of a fad or label.

I still don't think this person got a warning for saying Happy (whatever). There has to be more to it than that. Yes, there are strange warnings for things people never knew were wrong, I've gotten one. But I've never seen anyone get a warning for saying Happy Easter, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. No, I wouldn't post saying Happy Samhain, but I've seen people post just that and Happy Halloween. No problems there.

And I would miss it if they took away the Advent Calendar, even with all the complaining on the boards about who got what. I love going and seeing the animations (they're wonderful!) and that Neo thinks up neat goodies for all of us for a whole month is pretty cool!

OK, I think I'm done with this.

It kind of isn't fair though. On easter and such, on the neoboards there is messages saying Happy Easter!!!

The person wasn't being religious. He was just wishing them a happy holiday.

that's just his/her side of the story.

he/she might have said," happy 'whatever' and those of you who dont celebrate, you smurf"

we don't know, i don't think that neopets would warn someone for that, and then being warned and getting banned would mean that either the person repeatedly said the thing on the board or wrote a very bad letter to neopets to warrent a freezing.

You are right about that, in order of fairness, they should be consistant in whether they allow or disallow holiday greeting on the message boards. It is a sticky issue that I don't feel qualified to decide if they should be allowed or not. But regardless they need to be consistant.

In regards to the heart of the issue, looking at the first post, I see someone who probably deserved to be frozen. He/she did something that could have been interperted as against the rules. They were warned and when they chose to argue the point with Neopets, they were frozen. As far as unfair freezings go, I have heard of much worse. Also, judging on the petition this person doesn't sound like they sent a "Can you please clarify why I'm getting a warning complaint", they sent a "What the heck! All I said was Happy Yom Kippur!" sort of message to the Neopets staff.

Christmas, or any other "mainstream" holiday is only religious if you want it to be. It may have been religious at once, though in the cases of Christmas, Easter and Halloween, they didn't start out christian as we all know. Nowadays they're just excuses to get presents, candy, eggs, and whatnot.

my biggest problem with this issue is not that neopets advocates christmas, but that it is hypocritical and therefore discriminatory.

combining the religious with the cultural is dangerous and leads to more discrimination. it happened in the courts very recently: a religious belief which embedded itself into the mainstream culture. because it was represented as culture and not a religious belief, it could have found itself in the constitution.

when you start allowing christmas even though it IS religious _and i don't care which religion it is. it's currently somewhat christian but has pagan roots--still religion) just because it is found in mainstream culture, you're discriminating against those who aren't a part of that mainstream.

and i recognise that neopets is a business and their business IS the mainstream, that doesn't make discrimination right. they should either remove what religious signs they can or change the TOS.

the frozen person mentioned at the top of this topic aside, the TOS warns against discussing religion. if that rule is to be fair and embrace and protect everyone who plays neopets, then yes, an effort SHOULD be made to remove all traces of religion where possible, and not hide behind the "culture" label. including the anubis and horus mentioned above, and the crosses.

i am aware that religion is deeply embedded in culture, and it would be impossible to remove every teeny tiny religious reference, but they should at least try.

the christmas paintbrush offended me the first time i saw it. and believe me, i have nothing against religion of any kind. that is why i hate to see any kind of religion being discriminated against.

Actually I think you are right about that. But we still need to recognize that Neopets is still growing and in reality, no one is forced to play. It is a free game and if a person has such gross problems with the religion issue going down to the point where they don't like the crosses even though they are an international symbol of medical aid (I have traveled a bit in Europe, Asia, and North America and in all those places, regardless of if I knew the language or not I knew that if I saw a cross (which as a side note is a symbol that predates Christianity by far) with equal sides (as the ones on Neopets are) I knew that that was a hospital, not a place of worship).