Neoquest II (Split Again!)

[bgryph]

I finally finished it! I was in a slump for quite a while, right at the start of the Lost Desert, but recently the urge came back, and I got a Wand of Reality and of course the shiny gold trophy.

Congrats! I'm jealous... all I got was the Staff of Righteous Fury. :-(

Hmmm.....a question for all the NQ2 veterans out there (and I'm sure it was posted before...). I'm currently on chapter 1, Insane, and almost got Mipsy. Since everyone I know tells me to take melee defence for her on Insane, and the other 30 points are for group haste and innate haste, what would you take? Group direct damage, or just plain direct damage?

I'm personally a direct damage fan (I've never even used group direct), though DD v. GDD is often a subject of debate here it seems. I just feel that you don't regularly encounter 3 or 4 monsters until the Lost Desert anyway, plus it's my strategy to focus on one monster at a time.

But I'm not sure about spending points on group haste. I *think* the highest level is rampant acceleration, 38%, and haste potions surpass that soon enough. You could get both direct damages too then.

I think Mipsy is one of those characters with a surfeit of skill points. You need a damage skill (I also vote for DD) and the two innates, and I think Damage Shields is handy to have in big boss fights. But if you max out each skill at 11 that gives you one more skill you can train (most of) the way. And you don't really need another skill... both GDD and Group Haste can sometimes be handy, but you can easily do without either of them. So it doesn't really matter which you pick.

[Chaud]

I, too vote for DD. In 2-4 enemies, GDD wins. Against a single enemy, DD wins. Here (all maxed out):

GDD against 1: 64
GDD against 2: 128
GDD against 3: 192
GDD against 4: 256

DD against 1 (only possible anyway): 100

So you see, its pretty much GDD that wins against the multiple enemies. Mipsy has the 'big gun' with her GDD and DD, though at the end of the gam rohanes critical can doo over 100, but only 73 against Terask II (well, for me).

Personally, I choose DD still. It kills faster, though GDD kills more, but slower.

http://www.geocities.com/neoquest_2/skills.html is a good place to...err....like....jsut check it out.

Dog, Terask II has four turns, don't you think its fair, since you have 4 people anyway?

[Alex]

DD is not as good as GDD. Yes, DD does more damage against a single enemy, but GDD is better in the long run, especially when you get to Acts 4 and 5, with multiple enemies in 98% of the battles.

You're better off spending those 15 points somewhere else.

[Palemoonsdream]

But I'm not sure about spending points on group haste. I *think* the highest level is rampant acceleration, 38%, and haste potions surpass that soon enough. You could get both direct damages too then.

Erf. Yes, that's true, but on the other hand, you loose 4 whole turns when everyone uses his own speed potion. (and congratulations for winning gold )



Thanks everyone for your responses,it really helped me to decide ^^

[bgryph]

DD is not as good as GDD. Yes, DD does more damage against a single enemy, but GDD is better in the long run, especially when you get to Acts 4 and 5, with multiple enemies in 98% of the battles.

You're better off spending those 15 points somewhere else.

You're better off not spending 15 points in any one skill at all.

Esepcially if playing insane, the golden skill-chosing rule is, "How useful is this against Terask II?" DD is hands-down more useful against Terask II than GDD is -- doing a possible 200 points of damage in the amount of time that GDD could do 64.

After all, how often are you in a really dangerous multiple-enemy fight?

Exactly once, when you fight the faeries. And the faeries aren't just dangerous, they're SO dangerous that the standard strategy is to pick them off one at a time so you're free of at least one of them quickly -- and occasionally to mez one or more of them. Both of these strategies work better with DD than with GDD. Even with a really dangerous GROUP it's better to pick them off one at a time, because it doesn't matter how many HP you've peeled off your enemy -- they keep hitting you full-strength until they're dead.

(OK, you might be unlucky enough to encounter a group of 4 Body Parts of Nox that all Oblivate. That's a pretty dangerous group, too... and once again, you'll want to target each once individually for quick kills, not kill them off slowly as a group, with each of them getting their 100 point hits until the end.)

Also, consider. As you fight groups of enemies, they tend to die. GDD is marginally better than DD when you still have 4 enemies to fight: it does 256 max points of damage in the same amount of time that DD would do 200. But sooner or later, one of those enemies is going to die, and then suddenly you'll be doing max 192 with GDD, vs. a max 200 with DD. No more GDD advantage. Then another enemy dies... and well, you get the idea.

(Note that I'm not sure how much, if any, difference in GDD recharge times the number of enemies Mipsy targets with GDD makes. Both Velm's Group Heal and Talinia's Multiple Targets recharge more slowly the more characters they target. If GDD works the same way the disadvantage re DD with less than 4 opponenets may not be as great as I've suggested above.)

Don't get me wrong, GDD is a handy skill to have and if I decide to go back and play Evil again I think I'll choose it as a secondary skill over Group Haste. But I don't think it's better than DD.

Erf. Yes, that's true, but on the other hand, you loose 4 whole turns when everyone uses his own speed potion.

True, but I bet having the increased level of speed still gets you more turns overall using potions.

[Fallen Tear]

I started neoquest 4 days ago because I wanted the avatars I finished it yesterday on normal, but now I'm addicted, and I started a game on evil today. So far I've won 3 weapons/armor from just plain monsters. The game is alot harder when you start off, you have to use so many darn healing potions at first.

[Chaud]

I still say DD. Most bosses are by themself, besides the faeries and the Relevant. I mean, it's pretty rare you get into a hard-as mulltiple monster fight. The strategy is to kill one fast, rather than sall of them slow. If you got a four monster fight, you'll surely wanna kill them fast is they're like four hands of noxes. You'll wanna kill them fast, so DD kills one, fast. However, GDD will kill more but slower.

[kamehameha0]

I still say DD. Most bosses are by themself, besides the faeries and the Relevant. I mean, it's pretty rare you get into a hard-as mulltiple monster fight. The strategy is to kill one fast, rather than sall of them slow. If you got a four monster fight, you'll surely wanna kill them fast is they're like four hands of noxes. You'll wanna kill them fast, so DD kills one, fast. However, GDD will kill more but slower.

The above quote is very usefull and I recommomend it for ANYONE playing NQ II. Direct Damage is the way to go, IMO. On a Semi-OT related question, does this thread double for NQ I discussion, or is this strictly Neoquest II?

[mocha_san]

Ok I have another question..if you die while fighting Terask do you just go back to the last resting place or do you have to start over?

Depends which difficulty you play. On Normal and Evil, you're sent back to the place you last rested with half your gold. On InSaNe, you have to start from the very beginning.

I doubt very much that I will ever get the gold trophy... *Le Sigh*

[Chaud]

I still say DD. Most bosses are by themself, besides the faeries and the Relevant. I mean, it's pretty rare you get into a hard-as mulltiple monster fight. The strategy is to kill one fast, rather than sall of them slow. If you got a four monster fight, you'll surely wanna kill them fast is they're like four hands of noxes. You'll wanna kill them fast, so DD kills one, fast. However, GDD will kill more but slower.

The above quote is very usefull and I recommomend it for ANYONE playing NQ II. Direct Damage is the way to go, IMO. On a Semi-OT related question, does this thread double for NQ I discussion, or is this strictly Neoquest II?

I believe this is only NQII. thee should be a NQI sticky.

[DiscordantNote]

Is it worth spending points on Talinia's Multiple Targets skill? I think they might do better in Shockwave, but I want your opinions first.

[SpiraLethe]

You're better off not spending 15 points in any one skill at all.

Esepcially if playing insane, the golden skill-chosing rule is, "How useful is this against Terask II?" DD is hands-down more useful against Terask II than GDD is -- doing a possible 200 points of damage in the amount of time that GDD could do 64.

You can make it through insane just fine with GDD. The thing is, how often are you going to use DD against Terask II anyway? I almost didn't use Mipsy's attacks. Mipsy can do far more damage throwing potions. I also find GDD to be blocked less.

It's okay to max a skill if you know what you're doing. If you need that skill now and you know you'll have enought points left to fill in whatever you need to, then there's no harm done.

Last edited by SpiraLethe on Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Hunter Lupe]

After all, how often are you in a really dangerous multiple-enemy fight?

Try Nox's bodyparts on insane. They're not fun at all.

I'm trying (and probably getting annoyed on the way) to go for a 5x11+4 strategy (insane mode) -- putting 5 skills to 11 points, getting the final weapons, and then spending the last 4 skills to even out anything left (it's optimistic, I know, but it can work).

Generally, I'm all for Talinia's Multiple targets (but only to Fourth Arrow, or equipment bonuses). It's nice to have another anti-group attack later on in the game. I've no clue about shockwave (never used it, never felt the need to stun the whole group for a second).

Terask II is a nightmare however you look at him - Rohane's damage is halved, Velm gets trashed by the damage shield in direct attacks (and [almost] can't cast Hammer), Talinia gets reduced damage, and Mipsy hardly ever hits. Overall, it all depends on what (and how soon) Terask casts. In theory, any group can get trashed by a human playing as Terask (mesmerize Rohane, Mipsy and Talinia, and keep attacking velm untill he's dead -- piece of cake afterwards). In a related theory, if the odds are against you, you have no chance of beating Terask (luckily, the chance for that strategy actually happening is minimal).

[mocha_san]

Is it worth spending points on Talinia's Multiple Targets skill? I think they might do better in Shockwave, but I want your opinions first.

I definately think that Talinia's multi attack is one of the best of tha game. I already have it maxed out!

[bgryph]

After all, how often are you in a really dangerous multiple-enemy fight?

Try Nox's bodyparts on insane. They're not fun at all.

Like I said, if you're unlucky enough to hit 4 Hands of Nox, that could be bad. :-) (I haven't ever done that, though.)

Other than that, I remember them being more annoying than scary. But then, when I was playing Insane I went straight through to the Goo Bog, did all my leveling up there, and then backtracked through the fortress to kill Nox. I wouldn't suggest leveling-up in Nox's fortress. The monsters in the Goo Bog are less dangerous and give out more XP.

I'm not denying that you can finish Insane using GDD. But I still think DD is a better skill to have if you can only have one, even in the pre-Terask stage of the game. (I used Mipsy's DD plenty against Terask II.)

I'm somewhat torn about Talinia's Multiple Targets. It's a great skill and you definately need some points in it. If you train all the way up to Fourth Arrow, you get a fourth arrow (of course). However, frequently by the time Talinia's second Multiple Targets comes up in a battle, at least one monster is already dead, so there are now only 3 monsters to hit and the fourth arrow no longer has much benefit. Granted, putting more points in Multiple Targets gets you a slightly faster recharge. But I'm still not sure that 1 or 2 extra hits per 4-monster battle is worth the 5 extra skill points to go from Third Arrow to Fourth Arrow. Hard to call. I only put 4 points in Multiple Targets in my Insane game (I usually had at least Third Arrow from weapons bonuses, though) and frankly didn't miss the fourth arrow at all. Talinia has lots of cool skills, and no +4 final weapon, so I decided I'd rather not spend the extra points.