Pink Poogle Toy Forum

Go ahead and laugh at me, but hear me out first. It all started a few days ago when I saw the chocolate skeith in the new features. I don't own a skeith but if there are chocolate skeiths there will surely be chocolate grarrls some day not to mention clay and custard ones. Chances are good that none of those colors will be available via paint brush but only through a 400k NP laboratory map which I have so far refused to buy. I have four painted pets by the way. I've been there and done that as far as the Neopian economy is concerned.

Yet, seeing the unattainable chocolate color left me feeling sad and bitter. I have four painted pets only because I am an adult who has been able to make the time to master several games. I've used the hard to find games site, but I also know that playing games that way takes the fun out of them. They become way too much like work. Worse yet, most young players are never going to paint their pets. When advertised items are out of reach this encourages cheating and scamming and destroys community. My pets make young players want what they are never going to have.

Then there was the McDonalds store. I fed my pets for free. The only thing this McDonalds serves by the way is orange juice and milk. They also offer games featuring exercise. How do you say public relations campaign? How do you say deception? How do you say being used as a corporate tool to support deception?

Then I went to selichot services tonight. These are penitential prayer services that are part of the High Holy Days (It's too much competition with the corporate sponsors to discuss this on Neopets but I can discuss it here.) I started thinking about that chocolate skeith again and suddenly I was in tears. I've been used. I've been had. I've helped legitimate a deceptive and unethical system. I've spent fourteen months doing it.

It has to stop and no I'm not deleting my account. Walking away will not help others. It leaves a corrupt system intact. Besides I love my pets. They are a part of me. Neopets also fortunately has a consumeristic ethos that allows for multiple approaches.

If I can come up with an approach that is ethical and live by that approach, I may be able to encourage others to follow.

1) First, no more food from sponsors. I'll buy food if I want it for my pets or use the freebies that are nonsponsor. I will not allow McDonald's PR spot about how nutritious their food is to play on my computer. I may play sponsors games if I like the game and find it fun. Otherwise I will have nothing to do with it. (See below)

2) Second, no more playing games to earn Neopoints. If I want to play a game to relax, then fine. Games are for fun.

3) Third, I will spend down to below 2,000 NP. This qualifies me for unlimited food for the pets.

4) Third if I want an item, I can create it and host it through my paid web space and display it either in my store or on my user page. I do not need to buy items and many items Neopets does not sell are items I want. These include Passover Matzohs, dreidls at Channaukah etc...

5) I can also paint my pets by creating pictures of them painted whatever color I desire. No more having to save 100,000NP for brushes.

6) I'll be having my pets grow their own food and make many of their own posessions. The Neoadventure will give me close to unlimited space for this. I will delete my current Neoadventure and start a new one. I'll go easy on the anti-corporate rhetoric to keep inside the Neorules.

7) I will continue to role play on the boards since role plays are authentic and noncoporate. They are also a good antidote to the rat race.

I will eventually post about life off the grid on my userpage so that others can follow my example.

With luck all of this should work. It will feel strange to walk into stores and not be able to afford a lot of things, but in the end, I am going to feel a lot better about my relationship to Neopets and I have to live with myself. I feel I have let myself get to be a part of the problem in the last fourteen months. It is time to become part of the solution.

Not my path, but it sounds interesting.

I'm sorry you feel so betrayed by Neopets. If your plan makes sense to you, by all means follow it. I won't disagree with the fact that TNT is insensitive to people who don't celebrate Christmas (and I'll leave that description at that), however, I don't think it was an intentional decision. They do have Hannukah gelt, as well as several Hannukah cards. And may I remind you, Neopets is free. In order to continue running the site, the logical step is to take corporate money in the form of sponsorship. I understand you're upset over the principle of never owning a chocolate grarrl, or grundo, or whatever, but you've said you spent all manner of NP on paint brushes for your pets, what's your beef against the lab ray? People spend the np on a lab ray, they gain the amenities that go along with the lab ray. People buy a paint brush, they gain the amenities that go along with a paint brush. Do you expect no one to have to pay for anything on Neopets? How much fun would it be if everything was free? You say closing your account isn't the answer. Are you the first person to ever disagree with Neopian politics? You're not, and you won't be the last. Rage against the machine all you want. You're not changing what was free and Not Yours to begin with.

Well, I'm down to 3,000NP. I found a very good buy on a hand painted room divider, something I'd always wanted and so I went out with a bang. Staying under 2,000NP is going to be difficult. I can earn that much playing Chemistry for Beginners and I enjoy the game.

The new Neoadventure has three chapters. Neopets is more than just a private gaming site. It has become large enough that it deserves both scrutiny and criticism.

Neopets also has an economy. It's a badly unbalanced with a horrendous wealth distribution. Being a wealthy player (four painted pets. Four not so cheap petpets, including Unity, a krawkadon, and a furnished neohome in Tyrannia) among so many poorer players is analagous to being an American living in Tiajuana or perhaps an even grubbier and sadder Third World Country. There is no way the bulk of the population with whom I interact is going to go from being a have not to even a modest sort of have. This is ugly.

A lot of the the scheming, the scamming, and the prevalance of frozen accounts comes from the terrible distribution of wealth, and the fact that have nots can't ever become haves. The chocolate color (which I can't paint any of my pets at this time) is an example, but it's the tip of the ice berg. There is and would be another way...It's called public goods. Training would have a fixed price and be sold by Neopets instead of letting the market inflate it. Painting would be available for a fixed price in the range of buyability for the average player. That would probably be very cheap, but only in the eyes of the wealthy few.

Henry Ford sold his cars at a price that those working on his assembly line could afford. Neopets could do the same. Outliers like you and me might think it unfair, but we are outliers. The good for the majority should outweigh the good for us.

O.o You say that the poorer Neopians can never have the amount of wealth the richer ones do, but that doesn't make any sense.

It's called hard work. The "rich" people did it, so can the not "rich". You can't get everything for free. If you want anything worthwhile, you have to practice and spend your time to get it. It's the same as the real world in that respect, although it's far easier to become a millionaire on Neopets than it will ever be in real life. If a "poor" person wants to get that Draik Egg or Maraquan Pb or whatever, they have to get off their duff and work and save up and they'll get it just like anyone else.

This would all be interesting accept for one thing - it is only a game.

Love it or hate it, it still is a game. You still choose to play even with your modified rules. All the rules you made up defeat the purpose of the game.

You wish to bring the unfairness to our attention, but all you are doing is exploiting the free services provided by TNT for the newbies, really poor Neopians or for those who have no chance of making nps.

You can sit back and make all the judgements you like, but you are just as bad as those you challenge. You can make Nps, buy expensive things have 3 accounts full of good pets. It is only those that have reached those heights that complain the loudest.

I go to Neopets to escape real life for a little while, for you it seems Neopets is your life.

I am sure if you put all your energy into a real life project and stood up for real issues instead of a game, your life would have new meaning.

Exactly. Some people may not have as many neopoints as others, but it's not as though TNT prohibits anyone from getting far in the game. Everybody starts from the same point, it's how motivated you are that determines how well you do.

To the OP: I'm trying very hard not to be overly critical here, but it seems to me that devising a complicated plan to avoid all the corporate aspects of the site would really suck a lot of the fun out of the game. I mean, that's all it is when it comes right down to it: a game. If you don't agree with the way it's run and feel so strongly about it, don't play. *shrug*

It seems to me that the problems you have found with neopets are also problems with which you have strong opinions about. Problems that exist in real life. It seems to me that you could do more good by trying to help the real world instead of the neopian world. If you really feel this way you could do all the things you have suggested.

No fast food
Recylce
Shop locally (no walmart or other chain stores)
Eat organic farm raised food to support local farmers
Become a local farmer or open a small store yourself
Give generous donations to fund research and development projects which will benefit the environment, the underprivilaged, ect.
Try to make the things you desire, instead of buying them.
Or if you can't make them yourself, find someone else that makes them
and support them, instead of walmart.
And share your knowledge and discoverys with others

Maybe you already do these things anyway, and it is good if you do.
I'm the biggest Mcdonald's eatting, walmart shopping, meat eatting person around, myself. I look at that list up there and think "I could do some of those things, if I ever get around to it." But well..I probably won't get around to it. I like things to be convenient for me, and I am selfish. It is so much easier just to do what everyone else is doing. I hope one day I can change, but I live in a society that is all about convenience. And well, I think I have to take care of my needs and care about myself, because very few people love me or care about me, besides my family. And well, I know that is selfish really.

So... what your asking for is Neopian Communism? That didn't seem to work too well in the real world. I started out poor. Just like everyone else. I earned the np for my lab map, and that's how I got my mummy ruki (which I'm now adopting out), I earned np for an ixi trans. potion. I'm currently earning money for a Darigan paint brush, and codestones to up my stats for the war. I don't expect anyone to hand it out to me. Instead, I make a rule for myself, very much like the rules you make for yourself. Whatever I earn in a day, I put 10k away to save. Eventually, I will have the money to change yummycookieneo into a darigan ixi. Communism doesn't give anyone anything to work toward. If everyone could afford a Darigan Paint brush, I don't think I'd want one.

Neopets would not be any fun if we could get whatever we wanted for free. Although it may seem hard, once you finally achieve the amount of neopoints you need to buy the item, it's a really good feeling. When I got enough money to paint my Zafara, I was very happy and proud of myself. Yes, it was a little tiring and frustrating but I'm still alive.

By the way, when you said about how kids will never get paint brushes and such...I'm 12 years old and I've already gotten a Christmas Paint Brush and I'm very close to getting another one. The only reason why most of the kids on the site can't make NP is because they don't TRY. If they really devoted themselves to playing games, selling items, etc. they could make just as much NP as an adult could.

I'm sorry, but when I was 11, I could make about 200k on a good hour of restocking.

I'm sorry, but if that's how I wanted Neopets to be, I'd go out and get a job. Seriously.

If it makes neopets fun for you, that's fine, but don't push it on others. Spreading your idea like this is harmless, and I do think it's interesting. Neopets certainly can't make everyone happy either. I know in my case, I'm happy when my NP goes up, and I'm willing to work towards that in my free time.

People are free to do as their consciences guide them. I think it's bad for someone to go against their own conscience. Personally, I don't think the site is quite as bad as you think, but I've always been a proponent of working hard to get what you want. I know plenty of kids who have FAR more NPs and items than I do as an adult, but then again I don't have as much time to spend playing as most of them do. If anything, I think most adults have a bit of a disadvantage due to time restraints, what with working and having a family and all. I've watched the younger ones learn the economics of the site pretty quickly, so understanding is rarely an issue unless we're talking about the REALLY young.



Nice. I've never made more than about 80K on an hour of restocking. Where did you restock?

good for you. if the way you were playing before made you sad and bitter, and this way is more fun and satisfying for you, then i say go for it. make your world a better place. thank you for coming here and sharing your way of playing with us.


i agree with smudgeoffudge, though, too. it's awesome that you're trying to change your neopian experience for the better, but how much more awesome would it be if you made the real world better?

OK, lots to reply to. I'm going to do this in no particular order. First, self interest. Yes, I've been there and done that as far as Neopia is concerned. Not only are all four of my pets painted but they also have excellent stats. They have reached the point where I fear one of them will make level twenty and the cost of her training will double. They've read most of the commonly available books. I've built a Neohome and bought furniture for it. I enjoy role playing anyway and some of the games are fun. I don't lose out on all that much by not playing games except for enjoyment and by spending my time role playing and writing my Neoadventure. On the other hand, a good scheme is one that has a shot at being doable.

And one more thing, don't restock. I don't believe in making a profit off my fellow Neopians. Restocking is a euphemism. If you know me (check my user ID Roanna_np) you'll find that my store does not run at a profit and hasn't for most of the time I've been on Neopets. Spending down under 2,000NP means that I now have a pile of food that I'll either donate to my guild or potlatch through my store. I probably will from time to time raise the funds (I can do very well at some games and it's not that expensive) to potlatch.

Second, scruples. Since some of you would like to raise the moral bar for me, I'll let you know some of what I do in real life. I generally don't patronize McDonalds. Restaurant food, including fast food, is a treat not a staple. Mainly I prepare most of my own meals from scratch. I buy cage free eggs and own two "rescue cats" who would otherwise be out on the streets or dead. I'm a member of my local Democratic party committee. My politics are fairly far left of center. I contribute to http://www.anti-war.com which is one of the best war news sites on the web.

Third, "it's only a game." The money invested by sponsors to advertise there is real. The players (over a million of them) are real. The time spent earning Neopoints is real. Does "it's only a game" mean you should leave your conscience at the door?

Fourth, we don't live in a pure capitalist society. Public schooling (K-12) is free. Income taxes are progressive. We have social security. We have truth in advertising laws too. Also the real world Lawrecne curve even in the United States is not nearly as bowed in as the one on Neopets.
A Lawrence curve measures distribution of wealth. I think everyone here on this board is on the top of the Neopian Lawrence Curve. We are the very small percentage with the very large percentage of total wealth. I'm still at the top of the Lawrence Curve since my wealth is invested in my pets and Neohome.

Actually none of us has the numbers on wealth on Neopets. How many Neopoints can the average ordinary Neopian (not us!) realistically make or save up? Remember just because you can do it, doesn't mean everybody can. We are all outliers and we lie well to the right part of the wealth distribution. For most Neopians (not us), making 100,000NP is a big stretch and may be impossible. The reason I know this is that there are not very many purple, brown, or golden pets or white grarrls, fire grarrls, or strawberry tuskaninnies. The brushes and potions needed for those colors and morphings come in at between 90,000NP and 110,000NP. They are also readily available. Clearly if there were more Neopians who could earn 90-110,000NP these items would go up in price or be very scarce. You would also see these items put to use. Also if the wealth distribution were more even (everyone could save up and buy X.) you would see a lot more furnished Neohomes instead of Neohomes with empty rooms.

As for the Horatio Alger story, I've read it before. Just as in the real world, there are genuine barriers to wealth on Neopets. Time is a major one. If you are a working adult, if you are a kid whose parents control your computer time, if you have other committments online or elsewhere, you are not going to have the time to sit around watching stores so you can restock or you are not going to have the time to play multiple games three times a day. Scruples are another factor. Remember, I won't restock. I'm not sure how many others share my scruples. Then we have opportunity cost. Quite simply if you do one thing, you pay by losing the opportunity to do another. To someone who is greedy for Neopoints, role playing has a high opportunity cost. To someone who adores role playing, playing a quiz game about a television station you don't care about that doesn't even show in your part of the world, has a high opportunity cost.

I don't think opportunity cost for playing games (I don't know enough about restocking to tell you) is constant. Playing the same games every day three times or playing the games that are "cash cows" instead of the ones that might be enjoyable, gets old. It stops being fun. The opportunity cost rises.

A third factor that may limit wealth is COPPA. Neopians who are under thirteen and do not have parental clearance to communicate can't get help from wealthy Neopians (in the form of information not begging though begging sometimes works.) or the support necessary to make it through the rising opportunity cost.

I also think a portion of the population on Neopets (and if that's not you, dont' worry. Of course it's not you!) is economically naive. Saving for weeks on end, window shopping, playing games like punching a clock are all learned skills.

As for what I'm doing being fun or not, so far it feels good. A lot of the activities on the list, the Neoadventure, role playing etc... are enjoyable. Back in real life, I have dried beans sitting in the soaker for tomorrow's soup. The vegetable tray at a function I went to this afternoon hardly got touched and I got what was left (about two pounds worth). Cooking like writing and role playing is fun and in the end more fun than playing the same games over and over again for the money. Yes, the opportunity cost was going up. In my case, though, it just went down.

One more thing: immersive advertising. I am not anti-advertising supported internet. I have no problems with the intrusive ad on this site. I have no problems with the header or footer ads on Neopets or the ads on most Invisionfree.com boards. Immerseive advertising on Neopets was another matter. It was asking me to view a message that I either knew was a lie or that I often disagreed with or could not understand and paid me Neopoints to do so.

I don't read Chinese so I have no idea what the ad on the MirindaStand was saying. The rice ball stand at the Japanese 7-11 site also seemed harmless. Pepsi seemed to be selling courage with its soda which I found odd. Beyond there, though the ads got to ideas I didn't endorse. The Limited Too pushed overpriced and (at least I thought) ugly clothes on middle schoolers. When I was in middle school, Sears had just introduced young junior sizes. This was a great innovation. We did not have high priced boutiques of kids clothes.

Then there was the Maybelline game. I enjoyed playing this one and it was a lot of fun for 900NP a day. The problem was I really didn't think that teenage Philippino (from what I could judge by the skin and hair color) girls should wear the same amount of make up as middle aged ladies or spend their time and their money worrying about makeup.

The McDonald's stand though was what finally pushed me over the line. McDonalds purveys hamburgers, fries, and other not so nutritious menu items. They may serve milk and juice (Oh I'm sure they do), but that is not their main product and yes, they have been implicated as a cause of obesity in general and childhood obesity in particular. For the person worried about my real world involvement, I do follow the news. The advertisement that fed my pets and the game promoting exercise were dirty stinking lies, part of a public relations campaign designed to manufacture my good feelings toward the fast food giant. Yes, I can say no to this ad and just keep playing Neopets. Yes, I can encourage others to say "no."