To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:47 am
I am training up a new battlepet from the very start, the decision is, do I use the lab as well as other methods such as Training School, Kitchen Quests, Scratch cards (for levels) to gain extra stats?
This is what the Ray can do:
Bad:
Lose Strength
Lose Levels
Lose Movement
Lose Defence
Back to Level 1
Good:
Gain Levels
Gain Movement
Gain Defence
Gain Hit Points
Gain Strength
Non Stat effects:
Colour Change
Species Change
Gender Change
No Change At All
Pet's starting stats
Lvl : 7
Str : 10
Def : 8
Mov : 9
Hp : 13
Strength Boosts:
(1-7) (8-12) (13-19) (20-34) (35-54) (55-84)
(85-124) (125-199) (200-249) (250-299)
(300-349) (350-399) (400-449) (450-499)
(500-549) (550-599) (600-649) (650-699) (700-749) (750+)
Yep, this is going to be a challenge!!
(In spoiler due to size)
This is what the Ray can do:
Bad:
Lose Strength
Lose Levels
Lose Movement
Lose Defence
Back to Level 1
Good:
Gain Levels
Gain Movement
Gain Defence
Gain Hit Points
Gain Strength
Non Stat effects:
Colour Change
Species Change
Gender Change
No Change At All
Pet's starting stats
Lvl : 7
Str : 10
Def : 8
Mov : 9
Hp : 13
Strength Boosts:
(1-7) (8-12) (13-19) (20-34) (35-54) (55-84)
(85-124) (125-199) (200-249) (250-299)
(300-349) (350-399) (400-449) (450-499)
(500-549) (550-599) (600-649) (650-699) (700-749) (750+)
Yep, this is going to be a challenge!!
(In spoiler due to size)
Last edited by Daze on Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:02 am, edited 160 times in total.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:49 am
Daze, I kept lab stats for quite a while, and I think it averaged out to about 1 positive stat a day. As long as you balance it out with training (easy to do -- just stop zapping temporarily to catch up if need be, and go easy on the HP training since the lab tends to give too much of that), the net result is positive. It can clutter your closet and you might have to put up with some ugly for a while, but you can also gain free pb clothes for your other pets. If nothing else, it saves a ton of time.
Besides, I have eight of the nine pieces already in my SDB, and I'm willing to give them to you, so it's practically a free stat a day. (I collect the pieces until I can sell them as a full set; of course the one I'm missing is the most expensive one.) Let me know if you'd like the pieces, and I'll set up a trade.
Besides, I have eight of the nine pieces already in my SDB, and I'm willing to give them to you, so it's practically a free stat a day. (I collect the pieces until I can sell them as a full set; of course the one I'm missing is the most expensive one.) Let me know if you'd like the pieces, and I'll set up a trade.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:52 am
Thanks for the feedback Siniri. 
Nice to know about the HP!
I did lab my other battlepet for quite awhile, but couldn't remember the overall stats on it.
One good thing, I already have the lab map, as the account was made for zapping pets, so that is one big expense out of the way!!
Nice to know about the HP!I did lab my other battlepet for quite awhile, but couldn't remember the overall stats on it.
One good thing, I already have the lab map, as the account was made for zapping pets, so that is one big expense out of the way!!
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:40 am
For some random additional information on zap options (in case you don't know already know, I'm posting them as they can be helpful to know when you start getting close to the tops of a training bracket to help prevent bumping over too soon):
Levels always come in +2 or -2 (or back to level 1, which I've only ever had happen when I was level 2 or 3, though I've heard you can lose more?).
Str, Mov, and Def come in +2, +3, -2, and -3
HPs come in +2, +3, +4, and +5
For what it's worth, scratchcards are very unreliable when it comes to gaining levels. Because I'm a dork about tracking things, at some point I actually collected data from a couple friends (as well as my own) on scratchcards. While they're likely to net a profit in the long run, don't count on them for levels. In 25 Terror Troves that I had data for, only 1 level was gained - and like kitchen quests, they're still random as to what pet they go to.
I labbed what eventually became my primary battle pet for a while, back when I wasn't really paying attention to what stats actually do, etc. I've since evened out her stats and trained her up to a pretty decent set of stats.
I actually used a pet that was labbed even longer as a battle pet (just because of how high her hit points were) for TFR plot battling, as my battle pet was still in recovery training from her labbed stats. I was able to do pretty well battling, but I did have a couple decent weapons at that point (though not the set I have now, for sure!). I kinda wish I could do TFR again with my current battle pet and set, just to see how high I could get some of those tough guys to go!
My current labbie has been labbing for over a year and a half now. She's only had a few extra levels trained on free training days, plus the odd bonus bump up at coltzan's shrine (she's my active for this reason) and a few kitchen quest stat boosts here and there. Apparently I've got worse luck than siniri, as she's only netted 0.8 stat points per day, over half of which were HPs.
Labbie for about 5 years had a net gain average of 0.74 stat points per day, well more than half of which were HPs. Keep in mind, this pet was labbed during the time when faerie quests were random, so she ended up with stats from that, as well as free training anytime and every time I could (which was always level).
Level and defense are the worst stats with the lab - you're likely to lose these significantly more often than other stats. Why, I don't know. If you chose to lab and train, I'd recommend training extra defence if possible when you get close to training breaks, and you'll almost always need to be on top of level.
The higher your stats get, and the longer (and more costly the training gets), the harder it is to keep on top of defence/level.
My personal recommendation would be to use the lab as a supplement until the point at which you think you're losing too much in the way of training time/neopoints in order to recoup lost levels and defence (or other stats).
Hope that all helps!
Eesh that took longer than I thought it would to type up and get together.
Levels always come in +2 or -2 (or back to level 1, which I've only ever had happen when I was level 2 or 3, though I've heard you can lose more?).
Str, Mov, and Def come in +2, +3, -2, and -3
HPs come in +2, +3, +4, and +5
For what it's worth, scratchcards are very unreliable when it comes to gaining levels. Because I'm a dork about tracking things, at some point I actually collected data from a couple friends (as well as my own) on scratchcards. While they're likely to net a profit in the long run, don't count on them for levels. In 25 Terror Troves that I had data for, only 1 level was gained - and like kitchen quests, they're still random as to what pet they go to.
I labbed what eventually became my primary battle pet for a while, back when I wasn't really paying attention to what stats actually do, etc. I've since evened out her stats and trained her up to a pretty decent set of stats.
I actually used a pet that was labbed even longer as a battle pet (just because of how high her hit points were) for TFR plot battling, as my battle pet was still in recovery training from her labbed stats. I was able to do pretty well battling, but I did have a couple decent weapons at that point (though not the set I have now, for sure!). I kinda wish I could do TFR again with my current battle pet and set, just to see how high I could get some of those tough guys to go!
My current labbie has been labbing for over a year and a half now. She's only had a few extra levels trained on free training days, plus the odd bonus bump up at coltzan's shrine (she's my active for this reason) and a few kitchen quest stat boosts here and there. Apparently I've got worse luck than siniri, as she's only netted 0.8 stat points per day, over half of which were HPs.
Labbie for about 5 years had a net gain average of 0.74 stat points per day, well more than half of which were HPs. Keep in mind, this pet was labbed during the time when faerie quests were random, so she ended up with stats from that, as well as free training anytime and every time I could (which was always level).
Level and defense are the worst stats with the lab - you're likely to lose these significantly more often than other stats. Why, I don't know. If you chose to lab and train, I'd recommend training extra defence if possible when you get close to training breaks, and you'll almost always need to be on top of level.
The higher your stats get, and the longer (and more costly the training gets), the harder it is to keep on top of defence/level.
My personal recommendation would be to use the lab as a supplement until the point at which you think you're losing too much in the way of training time/neopoints in order to recoup lost levels and defence (or other stats).
Hope that all helps!
Eesh that took longer than I thought it would to type up and get together.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:37 am
Thankyou Pickles, there is some great information in there (It is funny how much you forget when you don't have to worry about such things when training a higher stat pet.)
Once my jetsam is unbloated, I will feed him to get the avatar (already have the fight one), then he will be moved to a side account, and I will just have the main pet to train. And as it doesn't matter if boochie or any other random event happens, I don't need a 2nd pet.
I had fairly good results with the scratchies, I just do them like a daily, 5 a day (if I can afford that), and see what happens. KitQs can be expensive, so I will have to set a limit to how much I want to spend on one. I may put this aside until I get more nps on hand.
I am playing KeyQ for the codies and neggs, so far have done well. I am also getting in my 1500 nps/15 items battledome daily. A little harder now as I need to heal up after around 4 fights. But I have already won a couple of red codies and faeries (which I will need for abilities).
ETA: Oh I forgot about Anchor Management. I just won a Two Dubloon Coin.
This part of the training will be cheaper and easier than when I first started!
~~~~~
Training has begun. 1st post will be updated every day. (I am kind of 'excited' for this new challenge!)
I forgot the pet was already in academy training HP, and now he is training strength.
Once my jetsam is unbloated, I will feed him to get the avatar (already have the fight one), then he will be moved to a side account, and I will just have the main pet to train. And as it doesn't matter if boochie or any other random event happens, I don't need a 2nd pet.
I had fairly good results with the scratchies, I just do them like a daily, 5 a day (if I can afford that), and see what happens. KitQs can be expensive, so I will have to set a limit to how much I want to spend on one. I may put this aside until I get more nps on hand.
I am playing KeyQ for the codies and neggs, so far have done well. I am also getting in my 1500 nps/15 items battledome daily. A little harder now as I need to heal up after around 4 fights. But I have already won a couple of red codies and faeries (which I will need for abilities).
ETA: Oh I forgot about Anchor Management. I just won a Two Dubloon Coin.
This part of the training will be cheaper and easier than when I first started!
~~~~~
Training has begun. 1st post will be updated every day. (I am kind of 'excited' for this new challenge!)
I forgot the pet was already in academy training HP, and now he is training strength.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:55 pm
It's funny, Pickles, I actually remembered 0.8/day, but wasn't sure it was accurate, but I knew it was about 1 stat per day.
Labbing shouldn't cost you any training time; it's a net gain, on average, so you're still coming out ahead in the long run. It's just a matter of balancing so you don't bump codestone levels too early. I've been supplementing training with labbing for years, and I've only had to suspend labbing a few times to avoid paying extra (don't overtrain HP before going to the next codestone level, especially when you have longer training times). But for an extra ~292 stats per year (net)... it's worth it.
Oh, more important info: I've heard you can get the "bumped back to level 1" up until about level 50, so you may want to hold off on zapping until you reach that level.
Daze, I've also got an endless supply of faeries stocked; it's not worth it to me to sell them, so they're just sitting in my SDB. Let me know if/when you want them (I suspect you'll accumulate more than you need in the time it takes to reach each ability level... but just in case).
Labbing shouldn't cost you any training time; it's a net gain, on average, so you're still coming out ahead in the long run. It's just a matter of balancing so you don't bump codestone levels too early. I've been supplementing training with labbing for years, and I've only had to suspend labbing a few times to avoid paying extra (don't overtrain HP before going to the next codestone level, especially when you have longer training times). But for an extra ~292 stats per year (net)... it's worth it.
Oh, more important info: I've heard you can get the "bumped back to level 1" up until about level 50, so you may want to hold off on zapping until you reach that level.
Daze, I've also got an endless supply of faeries stocked; it's not worth it to me to sell them, so they're just sitting in my SDB. Let me know if/when you want them (I suspect you'll accumulate more than you need in the time it takes to reach each ability level... but just in case).
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:26 pm
Hmmm....Level 50. It seems so far off. I really am undecided on that. I can buy 3 FQ Cookies which may help me level up faster so I can use the Lab without that nasty zap happening.
I will have to look at the Cost vs Time with training up to level 50.
I am getting faeries from the battledome, so hopefully I will have enough by the time I reach each required level.
I have enough for level 10, then there is a big wait until level 25.
I will have to look at the Cost vs Time with training up to level 50.
I am getting faeries from the battledome, so hopefully I will have enough by the time I reach each required level.
I have enough for level 10, then there is a big wait until level 25.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:58 pm
Since you're not living in the NST timezone, remember you can use Von Roo to increase about a level per day. More if you want to push your luck on doubles. Unless something changed, it is most definitely timed. IIRC, there's a guide somewhere on PPT. You do need to factor in how long it takes you to click and for the internet to send the click. It's a little tricky, but once you get the hang of it you'll be gaining levels quickly.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:06 am
Ohh, I forgot about Von Roo!! I just had to train 3 levels before doing anything else. Once I am in the next bracket, I might give it a whirl. I will go hunt down that guide, as I had no idea it was timed.
ETA: *headdesk* I zapped and got 2 levels, went to Deadly Dice and won another level. This puts me up into the next training bracket.
I might be able to lose them tomorrow. I didn't. So just moving on. Still cheap at 2 dubloon per session.
ETA: Training is moving along quite fast now that I only have 1 pet. I have started Kitchen Quests. In 2 days I managed to get 8 stat points. KQ is so expensive though. I was going to set a limit of around 5k per quest but I have gone as high as 10k (and luckily got a stat point from it).
Some days are so funny. I won 2 levels on Deadly Dice (and got the avatar) so I was happy about that. Then I went straight to the Lab and immediately lost 2 levels!
Easy Come; Easy Go!
I probably wont be able to keep up such an intense training programme due to costs but I am determined to train as hard as I can while I can. I am playing a lot of Key Quest for nps and items to sell, this is my main way of making nps. So far, so good!
BlueEdit: Combined double post
ETA: *headdesk* I zapped and got 2 levels, went to Deadly Dice and won another level. This puts me up into the next training bracket.
ETA: Training is moving along quite fast now that I only have 1 pet. I have started Kitchen Quests. In 2 days I managed to get 8 stat points. KQ is so expensive though. I was going to set a limit of around 5k per quest but I have gone as high as 10k (and luckily got a stat point from it).
Some days are so funny. I won 2 levels on Deadly Dice (and got the avatar) so I was happy about that. Then I went straight to the Lab and immediately lost 2 levels!
Easy Come; Easy Go!I probably wont be able to keep up such an intense training programme due to costs but I am determined to train as hard as I can while I can. I am playing a lot of Key Quest for nps and items to sell, this is my main way of making nps. So far, so good!
BlueEdit: Combined double post
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:24 am
Daze wrote:I probably wont be able to keep up such an intense training programme due to costs but I am determined to train as hard as I can while I can. I am playing a lot of Key Quest for nps and items to sell, this is my main way of making nps. So far, so good!
Remember to take advantage of the fast-playing favorable ratio games. WAK can easily earn 3k in just a couple of minutes.
That's about the only game I play anymore... if I have the time to spare after dailies. I actually have been remiss on dailies lately, too
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:20 am
My main source of income these days is Food Club, using these two sites:
http://foodclub.daqtools.info/ and http://www.neopets.com/~myfoodclubbets
If you just copy Hugo's bets, you can earn 1.8x your total bets per day (for me that'd be about 66k per day in profit) over the long term; your account's fairly old, so you could probably get ~40-50k per day on average. You may want to build up your bank account a bit first before betting the max you can, but you could always start betting just 1k per bet (10k total) to help it build. It only takes 2 minutes to enter the bets, so that's the fastest NP per unit time earner that I know of.
(I don't copy Hugo's bets, because I like to figure out my own. Using a spreadsheet, I spend anywhere from 5-30 minutes per day on it, depending on how much time I have and how interesting the day's odds are. My ratio is similar to Hugo's, but it includes bets before I made my system -- a net loss -- and several months' of copying his bets, so I think on average I beat him, but only slightly.)
Again, let me know if you run out of dubloons and/or codestones. I've got an endless supply just waiting to be put to good use.
http://foodclub.daqtools.info/ and http://www.neopets.com/~myfoodclubbets
If you just copy Hugo's bets, you can earn 1.8x your total bets per day (for me that'd be about 66k per day in profit) over the long term; your account's fairly old, so you could probably get ~40-50k per day on average. You may want to build up your bank account a bit first before betting the max you can, but you could always start betting just 1k per bet (10k total) to help it build. It only takes 2 minutes to enter the bets, so that's the fastest NP per unit time earner that I know of.
(I don't copy Hugo's bets, because I like to figure out my own. Using a spreadsheet, I spend anywhere from 5-30 minutes per day on it, depending on how much time I have and how interesting the day's odds are. My ratio is similar to Hugo's, but it includes bets before I made my system -- a net loss -- and several months' of copying his bets, so I think on average I beat him, but only slightly.)
Again, let me know if you run out of dubloons and/or codestones. I've got an endless supply just waiting to be put to good use.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:07 am
Thank you both for keeping the tips coming.
I am walking that fine line between trying to make nps and spending them all on training.
At the moment I am making more than spending, but as training gets more expensive that is where it will hurt. I am getting a nice codestone hoard from KQ and the 'dome, as well as neggs which will invaluable later on in training.
I haven't tried Food Club, I actually was studying up on it just before I lost my account. So now is just as a good time as any to give it a go.
I should start my Habi as well. Although I never did make anywhere near 100K a day like others say they did. The game never ran properly and I just gave up on it, but I need a lot of nps fast, so this is also a good time to try again.
** Got a strength boost today. Training is zooming along!!
ETA:
Update
Training has slowed down a bit. I have been upgrading my account with avatar pets which has stopped the Kit Quests.
I also morphed the Meerca into an Ogrin (which was less than 2K!), for the avatar and also because I do not like Meercas!
I am getting close to the 35 boost (as long as the silly lab ray doesn't keep removing stat points).
ETA2:
Update
Gained two HP from a FQ, which required me to train a level, leaving me on 19, then the next day I get a Level from the Shrine, bumping me up to the next tier. I tried to lose the levels by playing Deadly Dice, but I gained another level. So now I am up to 5 dubloons/8 hr training sessions.
I am walking that fine line between trying to make nps and spending them all on training.
At the moment I am making more than spending, but as training gets more expensive that is where it will hurt. I am getting a nice codestone hoard from KQ and the 'dome, as well as neggs which will invaluable later on in training.
I haven't tried Food Club, I actually was studying up on it just before I lost my account. So now is just as a good time as any to give it a go.
I should start my Habi as well. Although I never did make anywhere near 100K a day like others say they did. The game never ran properly and I just gave up on it, but I need a lot of nps fast, so this is also a good time to try again.
** Got a strength boost today. Training is zooming along!!
ETA:
Update
Training has slowed down a bit. I have been upgrading my account with avatar pets which has stopped the Kit Quests.
I also morphed the Meerca into an Ogrin (which was less than 2K!), for the avatar and also because I do not like Meercas!
I am getting close to the 35 boost (as long as the silly lab ray doesn't keep removing stat points).
ETA2:
Update
Gained two HP from a FQ, which required me to train a level, leaving me on 19, then the next day I get a Level from the Shrine, bumping me up to the next tier. I tried to lose the levels by playing Deadly Dice, but I gained another level. So now I am up to 5 dubloons/8 hr training sessions.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:52 am
Congrats on hitting the next strength and defence boosts! I hope that's starting to help in the 'dome already!
If you want to speed training back up some, you could always throw in a MI Training School session here and there (you'd be at 3 hour trainings at the MI Training School). I know it's not as cheap as dubloons, though...but *most* of the regular codestones are pretty low in price. (That is to say, 6 are under 3k, 3 are 3.2k-5.6k, and then the Eo's are at 9k).
Just throwing that out there in case you didn't know what the prices were now...and a lot of people tend to forget you can mix and match with the schools if you want - and run at least one longer session when you're sleeping.
If you want to speed training back up some, you could always throw in a MI Training School session here and there (you'd be at 3 hour trainings at the MI Training School). I know it's not as cheap as dubloons, though...but *most* of the regular codestones are pretty low in price. (That is to say, 6 are under 3k, 3 are 3.2k-5.6k, and then the Eo's are at 9k).
Just throwing that out there in case you didn't know what the prices were now...and a lot of people tend to forget you can mix and match with the schools if you want - and run at least one longer session when you're sleeping.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:42 am
Ahh, thanks for the heads up Pickles. I had forgotten you could use both schools. I thought you meant at the same time....I remembered you can only do that when you are at level 250 - you can train at Mystery Island and Ninja School.
But I can see the advantage of only 3 hour courses if I am at the computer for awhile. I also have a nice little stash of codies from playing KQ. I should be able to fit a few quick sessions in tomorrow since I am not at work.
It will be helpful when the lab takes stats away, as it kept doing to my Defence.It took a full week of rebuilding Defence to get that boost. LOL....it took 3 days, but it felt like a week!!
Yes, I noticed that new strength boost actually allowed me a 1-hit Mighty wins against those lower opponents which makes fighting less time consuming. I am not going to spend any nps on good weapons at this point, so I am relying solely on training boosts.
I think I will try the next group of skirmish opponents to see what damage I can do.
Update
Lab gave me 5 HP so no going back to cheaper training. Onwards and upwards!!
Update 2
Have had a great couple of days for adding stat points. Thanks to Pickles for reminding me about the Mystery Island Academy, I have been training (almost) every 3 hours while I have been at home. Also today, I have had2 3 random faerie quests which the refresh quest boon has helped me out to get the better stat points. I even managed to get 1 level on a scratchcard.
* Managed to get in 6 x 3 hr training sessions (the first one was enrolled from the day before)....due to the fact that I have been quite unwell all weekend.
But I can see the advantage of only 3 hour courses if I am at the computer for awhile. I also have a nice little stash of codies from playing KQ. I should be able to fit a few quick sessions in tomorrow since I am not at work.
It will be helpful when the lab takes stats away, as it kept doing to my Defence.
Yes, I noticed that new strength boost actually allowed me a 1-hit Mighty wins against those lower opponents which makes fighting less time consuming. I am not going to spend any nps on good weapons at this point, so I am relying solely on training boosts.
I think I will try the next group of skirmish opponents to see what damage I can do.
Update
Lab gave me 5 HP so no going back to cheaper training. Onwards and upwards!!
Update 2
Have had a great couple of days for adding stat points. Thanks to Pickles for reminding me about the Mystery Island Academy, I have been training (almost) every 3 hours while I have been at home. Also today, I have had
* Managed to get in 6 x 3 hr training sessions (the first one was enrolled from the day before)....due to the fact that I have been quite unwell all weekend.
Re: To Lab or not to Lab?
Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:08 am
Bummer about being sick over the weekend. Looks like you hit the next boosts though, congrats! Just in time for this round of battling!
Looks like you hit the next boosts though, congrats! Just in time for this round of battling!