Game challenge hustling
Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:06 pm
Say a person can regularly score over 1020 points in Wingoball. Instead of their high scores reflecting this, their high score is only listed at 500-900 through use of a method I wont disclose to avoid giving lurkers ideas. Now, that person begins to constantly ask others to challenge them at Wingoball for a substantial betting amount. The potential challengers think that the high score is in their league, and decide to take the challenge. Then they end up losing their NP to someone who has purposely hidden their true skill. Is this an okay thing to do?
I used Wingoball as an example since it seems to be a popular game for these people to use. It doesnt seem like something TNT would seriously condone, but I've seen the 'hustlers' arguing that the staff has said that some people do make their NP that way, and so its allowed. They also say that anyone can go and view their challenge scores, and its 'not their fault' if someone thinks the score listed on their lookup is the truth.
I sent my question to the editorial, but since I have a one on a billion chance of getting it answered, I thought I'd ask here too. Im new to the challenge scene, and dont know if TNT has ever said anything in the past about how legal any of that is.
I used Wingoball as an example since it seems to be a popular game for these people to use. It doesnt seem like something TNT would seriously condone, but I've seen the 'hustlers' arguing that the staff has said that some people do make their NP that way, and so its allowed. They also say that anyone can go and view their challenge scores, and its 'not their fault' if someone thinks the score listed on their lookup is the truth.
I sent my question to the editorial, but since I have a one on a billion chance of getting it answered, I thought I'd ask here too. Im new to the challenge scene, and dont know if TNT has ever said anything in the past about how legal any of that is.
Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:53 pm
Wait, you're talking about betting on something that isn't like a World Challenge or Challenge A Friend but instead something like a "I bet 5,000 np I can beat you" kind of thing.
Is betting on games and scores even allowed?
That would probably be scamming, but they might not even give anything back because it was of their own "ignorance" (as TNT would call it). It might be worth sending a report if you don't get an answer.
Is betting on games and scores even allowed?
That would probably be scamming, but they might not even give anything back because it was of their own "ignorance" (as TNT would call it). It might be worth sending a report if you don't get an answer.
Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:29 pm
siouxper wrote:Wait, you're talking about betting on something that isn't like a World Challenge or Challenge A Friend but instead something like a "I bet 5,000 np I can beat you" kind of thing.
Is betting on games and scores even allowed?
That would probably be scamming, but they might not even give anything back because it was of their own "ignorance" (as TNT would call it). It might be worth sending a report if you don't get an answer.
No, theyre using real game challenges, nothing against the rules with that part. But they purposely keep the scores on their high score list low, in order to lure people into challenging them. (Similar to a pool hustler who plays badly for show, but brings out all the tricks when money is involved.)
Person #1 would say 'Challenge me for 10k on Wingoball!' Then a potential challenger would view their high scores, see a score of 750, and think 'ok, that isnt so bad' and agree to the challenge. The truth is that Person #1 is a great Wingoball player, plays a MUCH better game against the challenger, and wins 10k.
Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:35 pm
Well that is definitely not allowed. You or someone who is involved or has seen it happen should send a report to TNT. Because even though some of us might not fall for it, there are others who will.
Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:59 am
I'm not sure. If they are using illicit methods to keep their high score down, then of course that isn't allowed. If they're playing the game badly three times so that further scores won't count, then that is probably allowed, just sort of dishonest. Really, all they're doing is winning a challenge. It's not their fault if people are misled by their high scores, also gained through perfectly legal means.
Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:20 pm
It's not nice, but it isn't really against the rules as far as I know. If you get a challenge to play a game for a certain amount of money, then that's just it. Seeing the high score of that challenger might be a bit helpful, but it certainly is no guarantee of that person's skills.
Now, if that person adds any more claims like "check my high score, that's the highest I can get, really!", that's illegal since that person makes false claims.
Now, if that person adds any more claims like "check my high score, that's the highest I can get, really!", that's illegal since that person makes false claims.
Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:24 pm
Not posting a good score isn't bad, but lying about the score they can possibly obtain is wrong. But it really depends.
Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:04 am
Thanks for the replies. Nothing they're doing is specifically against the rules. its just frustrating to know that theyre tricking newbies on purpose, reaping the benefits of it in hundreds of thousands of NP, and theres nothing to stop it.
Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:45 pm
I'm pretty sure anything that misleads other players as to your true stats is against the rules, and I don't see why that wouldn't include their high scores.
I think I'd report them and see what happens.
I think I'd report them and see what happens.
Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:47 pm
Well, let's analyze this for a second though.
When you do a world challenge, doesn't it record your score for the game, like any other score sent on the game? So you could only do this once, ever, and then your high score would be shown on your userlookup.
UNLESS you had a cheating way to get the computer to not show your high score. In which case... no.
The only other way I can think of to, um, "legitimately" only show low scores (and by legit i just mean no coding/hacking, just playing the game and sending the score the normal way), would be to continuously open new accounts, send weenie scores, but then as soon as you won the challenge it would update with your new high score and you'd have to start over on a new account. Which would get you iced anyway for abusing multiple accounts.
So unless I'm mistaken about world challenge scores posting to your account, it comes down to: as soon as you beat one person, your high score will be posted and you won't be able to do that anymore, unless you specifically do something not allowed to prevent it from being posted. So either it's illegal or it's moot because it can only happen once.
yesno?
When you do a world challenge, doesn't it record your score for the game, like any other score sent on the game? So you could only do this once, ever, and then your high score would be shown on your userlookup.
UNLESS you had a cheating way to get the computer to not show your high score. In which case... no.
The only other way I can think of to, um, "legitimately" only show low scores (and by legit i just mean no coding/hacking, just playing the game and sending the score the normal way), would be to continuously open new accounts, send weenie scores, but then as soon as you won the challenge it would update with your new high score and you'd have to start over on a new account. Which would get you iced anyway for abusing multiple accounts.
So unless I'm mistaken about world challenge scores posting to your account, it comes down to: as soon as you beat one person, your high score will be posted and you won't be able to do that anymore, unless you specifically do something not allowed to prevent it from being posted. So either it's illegal or it's moot because it can only happen once.
yesno?
Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:42 pm
miz sparrow wrote:When you do a world challenge, doesn't it record your score for the game, like any other score sent on the game? So you could only do this once, ever, and then your high score would be shown on your userlookup.
Actually, it doesn't. I should know, cause I beat my high score during a WC round...on my 4th send. In the WC FAQ, it even states that if you beat your high score, but are past your first 3 sends (for NPs), that it doesn't count towards your high score. WC challenges results are cleared after 24 hours, I believe.
For the personal challenges (for NP bets), though, I think you can look those up with scores. I'm not sure how long they stay up though, as I've only ever done one and it was only a couple weeks ago.
I can look up the more specifics if someone wants me to when I get home.
Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:09 pm
It's simply the difference between unfair and illegal.
The high score of someone doesn't matter. If someone challenges you, and you accept, then you agreed to play against that person, nothing more nothing less. There is nothing that says high scores have to be taken into account. Seeing that persons high score gives no guarantee or obligation, because your high score happens to be higher. If that person intentionally keeps his or her score low to trick you, then yes, it is unfair, but not illegal.
The high score of someone doesn't matter. If someone challenges you, and you accept, then you agreed to play against that person, nothing more nothing less. There is nothing that says high scores have to be taken into account. Seeing that persons high score gives no guarantee or obligation, because your high score happens to be higher. If that person intentionally keeps his or her score low to trick you, then yes, it is unfair, but not illegal.
Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:19 pm
We should create a list report list of these people, just do the same thing back, I can consistently get 1,070 points, I may accept a challenge, but I never start one. Maybe these people we can do it back to, it's not against the rules, it's just not nice.
Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:11 am
Kenjiro wrote:It's simply the difference between unfair and illegal.
The high score of someone doesn't matter. If someone challenges you, and you accept, then you agreed to play against that person, nothing more nothing less. There is nothing that says high scores have to be taken into account. Seeing that persons high score gives no guarantee or obligation, because your high score happens to be higher. If that person intentionally keeps his or her score low to trick you, then yes, it is unfair, but not illegal.
I think it's more appropriate to think of this as "unfair should be illegal, if it's not already". In this context, "fair" probably includes "allow people to decline challenges from those with higher skill", and I'd say high score is certainly meant to be a measurement of skill.
Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:31 am
In that case, you're just saying that you want the high scores to be a measurement of someone's skill 
The only true way of knowing someone's skill, is by playing against them. Look at sports for example. Someone or some team that is ranked 1st in a division doesn't automatically win from a lower ranked competitor, just because their score is higher..
And I know there's a difference between a competition and hustling, but I've given my view of it before already
The only true way of knowing someone's skill, is by playing against them. Look at sports for example. Someone or some team that is ranked 1st in a division doesn't automatically win from a lower ranked competitor, just because their score is higher..
And I know there's a difference between a competition and hustling, but I've given my view of it before already