Advice on warnings?
Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:02 am
So.. after wandering away from my computer for about half an hour, I come back to this:
You have received an official warning from the Neopets Team for violating the Neopets Terms and Conditions. You may not ask for or offer web design or other services or use NeoPets images or materials to earn money, Neopoints, or NeoPets’ Items. This is a violation of NeoPets copyright and trademark rights and is strictly forbidden. If you continue to break the rules, your account will be permanently frozen. To see a list of Neo Rules, please visit http://www.neopets.com/chatrules.phtml. Please do not reply to this NeoMessage.
Except... I have no idea what they're talking about o.O
I've never done anything like that - the only thing I've been doing lately on the neoboards is lend out an item for an avatar.
Someone suggested I contact Neo and ask if they can clarify this warning. I've had a quick look at the Contact Us page, but can't for the life of me work out what section it'd come under.
Should I be worried? And if someone could direct me to the correct page, I'd be very grateful
You have received an official warning from the Neopets Team for violating the Neopets Terms and Conditions. You may not ask for or offer web design or other services or use NeoPets images or materials to earn money, Neopoints, or NeoPets’ Items. This is a violation of NeoPets copyright and trademark rights and is strictly forbidden. If you continue to break the rules, your account will be permanently frozen. To see a list of Neo Rules, please visit http://www.neopets.com/chatrules.phtml. Please do not reply to this NeoMessage.
Except... I have no idea what they're talking about o.O
I've never done anything like that - the only thing I've been doing lately on the neoboards is lend out an item for an avatar.
Someone suggested I contact Neo and ask if they can clarify this warning. I've had a quick look at the Contact Us page, but can't for the life of me work out what section it'd come under.
Should I be worried? And if someone could direct me to the correct page, I'd be very grateful
Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:47 pm
If it's just a warning, I wouldn't worry too much. It's possible somebody read a post on the neoboards and confused it to mean that you'd design an avatar for them if they gave you something in return.
Re: Advice on warnings?
Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:04 pm
Alex wrote:I've never done anything like that - the only thing I've been doing lately on the neoboards is lend out an item for an avatar.
Did you ask for a tip or even suggest one? If so, that's what got you the warning. You're not allowed to ask for tips.
Re: Advice on warnings?
Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:08 pm
_B4U_ wrote:Alex wrote:I've never done anything like that - the only thing I've been doing lately on the neoboards is lend out an item for an avatar.
Did you ask for a tip or even suggest one? If so, that's what got you the warning. You're not allowed to ask for tips.
even asking for collateral and someone reporting it might have caused the warning too.
Re: Advice on warnings?
Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:47 pm
_B4U_ wrote:Alex wrote:I've never done anything like that - the only thing I've been doing lately on the neoboards is lend out an item for an avatar.
Did you ask for a tip or even suggest one? If so, that's what got you the warning. You're not allowed to ask for tips.
I thought that just lending in general wasnt allowed
Re: Advice on warnings?
Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:08 pm
Phlameseeker wrote:_B4U_ wrote:Alex wrote:I've never done anything like that - the only thing I've been doing lately on the neoboards is lend out an item for an avatar.
Did you ask for a tip or even suggest one? If so, that's what got you the warning. You're not allowed to ask for tips.
I thought that just lending in general wasnt allowed
Its not allowed If I recall correctly.
And heres a quote from the Neoboards:
"NOTE: Item pools are a scam and are not allowed!"
Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:15 pm
I was under the impression that it wasn't allowed in the first place, as stupid as that may sound. What's the harm if someone two people trade items of equal value? Item pools aren't the same as lending with collateral though. An item pool is when a group of people get together asking for np to help buy an avatar item who promise to lend it out to all the contributors once they do. 99% of the time they take the money and run.
Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:25 pm
Well, I've seen people get warnings or lending out avatar items. But maybe since it happens so much, they stop giving warnings unless people report them?
(post 300 by the way
)
(post 300 by the way
)
Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:34 pm
To be honest, I do not see what the problem is with item lending, even pet lending, With items, if proper collateral is taken out, there in no risk. The only thing TNT are encouraging is inflation. With pet lending, it is a risk, but people acknowledge the risk, so cannot complain. TNT seem only to want to drive the prices up.
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:14 am
The problem with lending:
Lending is not a safe thing to do for both sides.
•On the lender's side: the borrower might keep it for themselves and not get it back. The lender could report the borrower so they get frozen, but that would result in fewer of the items and it would drive the price up.
•On the borrower's side: the lender might keep the np/items offered as collateral. Let's say the borrower gives the lender 20M for a MSPP (TCG). The lender could keep the 20M and run away with it, leaving the borrower with the card. Now, it may not seem like such a bad deal, but honestly, how often do you see people asking to buy a MSPP (TCG)? Most people want to lend it, that way, they get the avatar and keep all their np. If they buy it, they have a cool item and the avatar, but not the np.
That's what TNT probably sees lending as - two possible scams.
If you can pull off a successful lend though, it should not be freezable. But you can't know for sure, so...
Lending is not a safe thing to do for both sides.
•On the lender's side: the borrower might keep it for themselves and not get it back. The lender could report the borrower so they get frozen, but that would result in fewer of the items and it would drive the price up.
•On the borrower's side: the lender might keep the np/items offered as collateral. Let's say the borrower gives the lender 20M for a MSPP (TCG). The lender could keep the 20M and run away with it, leaving the borrower with the card. Now, it may not seem like such a bad deal, but honestly, how often do you see people asking to buy a MSPP (TCG)? Most people want to lend it, that way, they get the avatar and keep all their np. If they buy it, they have a cool item and the avatar, but not the np.
That's what TNT probably sees lending as - two possible scams.
If you can pull off a successful lend though, it should not be freezable. But you can't know for sure, so...
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:39 am
I don't think that scenario supports TNT's case. If the items traded are of equal value, then nobody comes up short. That means that if you're borrowing someone's card you need to take into account how much you could sell it for when you offer up your collateral. It's hardly a scam.
Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:11 am
Borrowing/lending is against the rules now, I guess because of scammers? They are being, IMHO, overly strict on this one. I know someone who got frozen for simply posting that a pet was going to the pound - not lending it, not trying to 'reserve' it, nothing like that. ... just that it was going to the pound if anyone wanted to try for it.
And yes, people are getting warnings for borrowing/lending. Tips are a definite no-no.
The last time I did a trade with someone (not a borrow, just a trade) I noted this on the page:
So, they think people are selling pets (I know, there's the occasional person who does try that nonsense), I guess because some people will say they'll lend an avatar pet or pet with aged avatar petpet and want something for it.
I'd much rather see TNT go after the beggers who are always asking for donations either outright, in their siggy or in their lookup or shop than people simply lending/borrowing avatar items (NOTE: not pets, that does get really sticky too much).
In your case, Alex, it was probably making a board offering to lend an avatar item. There should be a separate warning for that if they're going to warn people about it. One more thing that I don't think is in the T&C or Chat Rules, is it? I would write in, Support - Other.
Of course, when I got a warning for typing ebay I did write in and heard ... nothing.
And yes, people are getting warnings for borrowing/lending. Tips are a definite no-no.
The last time I did a trade with someone (not a borrow, just a trade) I noted this on the page:
TRADING POST ADVICE : If a trade seems too good to be true, it might be! Asking for donations, borrowing items and selling/trading items and neopoints for pets is not allowed—nor is asking for personal information. This can lead to you being scammed. If you suspect this user is cheating, please report them by using this form.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, they think people are selling pets (I know, there's the occasional person who does try that nonsense), I guess because some people will say they'll lend an avatar pet or pet with aged avatar petpet and want something for it.
I'd much rather see TNT go after the beggers who are always asking for donations either outright, in their siggy or in their lookup or shop than people simply lending/borrowing avatar items (NOTE: not pets, that does get really sticky too much).
In your case, Alex, it was probably making a board offering to lend an avatar item. There should be a separate warning for that if they're going to warn people about it. One more thing that I don't think is in the T&C or Chat Rules, is it? I would write in, Support - Other.
Of course, when I got a warning for typing ebay I did write in and heard ... nothing.
Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:35 am
That's quite lame... Fancy giving out warnings and not doing much. boo
Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:04 pm
Well, I decided to mail Neopets staff on this, to try and clarify the matter, and, umm, didn't really, anyway...
I wrote:
And Neopets replied:
I wrote:
Also, recently, borrowing item has come under scrutiny. In the rules, it
reads people are not allowed to borrow items. Although some people may get
scammed, the case is that they do not ask for collateral, if so, they are
covered. If people who lend are frozen, the only thing I see happening is
inflation and people having items they do not want. What is the stance of
Neopets on the matter? Will people get frozen for lending?
And Neopets replied:
Thats a grey area, seriously. Im not sure were it all stands and no one has made
a definate rule about lending items. You cant ask for a tip, thats for sure.
Collateral is okay, since the lessens the chance of getting scammed.
Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:48 pm
a grey area? in the Rules? NO, it can't be!
Sorry, couldn't resist a little sarcasm. That you got a reply so quickly is a good thing. That Support does not know what is and is not allowed is not a good thing. And I am not saying anything bad about Support. I think they do a wonderful job, and they have a hard job.
Once again, broken record time. We need a full and complete T&C with an absolute list of what is and is not allowed.
The fact that you risk being frozen for lending (or borrowing) an avatar item is kind of scary. People will not do this anymore which will just add to inflation (which is bad enough).
I understand not lending/borrowing pets, that's just asking for trouble when the lender puts the pet in the pound and a sitter grabs it or the borrower decides not to give it back.
Collateral for borrowing an item should be allowed, that is between the 2 people. If you don't ask for enough collateral and the item is kept, that's your problem. If you don't get to trade back the item for your collateral, well again, you've used the TP so it is technically a trade. People can yell, but like putting a pet in the pound, that is the chance you take.
The biggest problem I've seen with borrowing/lending is a lender getting multiple offers for an item with someone bidding, say 10,000 instead of the 100,000 collateral asked for -- and it being accepted because the lender's in a rush to get to as many people as possible. Then the "borrower" simply disappears with the item. That has happened, and it's happened to people I know.
I do agree completely with no tips. I've never liked that and the very few times I have had an avatar item, I never once asked for a "tip", "donation" or anything else.
Regardless of any rule this kind of thing is open to scamming on both sides. The only answer I can think of is not making so many uber-expensive, rare avatars.
Oh, I hope you got an answer regarding your warning.
Sorry, couldn't resist a little sarcasm. That you got a reply so quickly is a good thing. That Support does not know what is and is not allowed is not a good thing. And I am not saying anything bad about Support. I think they do a wonderful job, and they have a hard job.
Once again, broken record time. We need a full and complete T&C with an absolute list of what is and is not allowed.
The fact that you risk being frozen for lending (or borrowing) an avatar item is kind of scary. People will not do this anymore which will just add to inflation (which is bad enough).
I understand not lending/borrowing pets, that's just asking for trouble when the lender puts the pet in the pound and a sitter grabs it or the borrower decides not to give it back.
Collateral for borrowing an item should be allowed, that is between the 2 people. If you don't ask for enough collateral and the item is kept, that's your problem. If you don't get to trade back the item for your collateral, well again, you've used the TP so it is technically a trade. People can yell, but like putting a pet in the pound, that is the chance you take.
The biggest problem I've seen with borrowing/lending is a lender getting multiple offers for an item with someone bidding, say 10,000 instead of the 100,000 collateral asked for -- and it being accepted because the lender's in a rush to get to as many people as possible. Then the "borrower" simply disappears with the item. That has happened, and it's happened to people I know.
I do agree completely with no tips. I've never liked that and the very few times I have had an avatar item, I never once asked for a "tip", "donation" or anything else.
Regardless of any rule this kind of thing is open to scamming on both sides. The only answer I can think of is not making so many uber-expensive, rare avatars.
Oh, I hope you got an answer regarding your warning.